[fred100]

I think everyone should be aware that the gay activist - Khun Natee Teerarojanpongs, is still pushing to have all gay saunas in Thailand closed, to help stop the spread of HIV. Refer the following:-

http://bkkmindscape.blogspot.com/200...una-peril.html

and the follow-up:

http://bkkmindscape.blogspot.com/200...a-peril-2.html

[sextile]

Originally Posted by fred100

I think everyone should be aware that the gay activist, Khun Natee Teerarojanpongs, is still pushing to have all gay saunas in Thailand closed, to help stop the spread of HIV.
... .

-- I was unable to download either.
-- Bibi.. --

[Hot Viking]

Yes, very smart. He might as well call for closing all the bars (both Soi 4, Soi 2 and Soi Twillight), the parks, the shopping malls, the internett, the streets and all sorts of other places men meet for sexual encounters.

[Hot Viking]

He must make sure that Malaysia Hotel closes down too.

[brief encounter]

reason saunas survived the first wave of panic in some western countries was that health officials and politicians recognized them as meeting places where aids education in the form of pamphlets and posters could reach the ignorant or those who did not define themselves as gay.some venues in melbourne australia even have testing for stds etc once a week (no pressure)

at babylon in the 90's posters were in place but now not so visible if at all.the other non-farang saunas i have visited did not even have token displays of safe-sex information,though i haven't been for some time.

what good do the campaigns do in 2008? i do not know but saunas unfortunately will be always be under scrutiny when hysteria breaks out and at least they should appear to be responsible citizens as much as they can.condoms,hygiene and some advice is the starting point still.

our own responsibility is paramount but any chronc cruiser knows human nature takes over without regard to consequences at times.

i know this is old hat...to some.

[fountainhall]

what good do the campaigns do in 2008?

Very little, according to the increasingly alarming statistics. But let's not forget it was only a few years ago when Babylon was raided and a senior government or police officer showed a used condom as evidence that sexual activity was taking place there! If senior officials don't know about the importance of condoms, what chance does the rest of the populations have?

Let's not forget, too, that in the USA saunas were closed in the 1980's soon after the extent of the HIV epidemic was discovered - and that rates in the US began to fall thereafter. (Granted that's a simplified conclusion - but closure of the saunas did contribute).

I believe two factors will prod the government to take some sort of action. 1. escalating healthcare costs for the increasing numbers of HIV/AIDS paients. 2. the government's desire to promote the country's image as a family tourist destination.

Only a major and sustained effort by the saunas actively to promote safe sex is likely to get the blessing of Khun Natee who, let's also not forget, has done more than almost anyone to promote gay issues and acceptance in Thailand.

[fred100]

Actually Natee was on Thai television this evening, around 5.45pm, talking about the same subject - he had a masked HIV patient with him, who claimed he had caught HIV in a sauna, and a Thai lady from a hospice in Chiang Mai. He said that the police seem not to want to do anything about the problem, because they are getting paybacks from the saunas, and therefore it is up to the health department now to do something about the problem. I am sure it will be mentioned in the Thai newspapers tomorrow!!

[fountainhall]

he had a masked HIV patient with him, who claimed he had caught HIV in a sauna

If this young man has only ever had unprotected sex in saunas, then he may be telling the truth. Otherwise it's pure speculation. But spreading this sort of alarm will do no-one any good. Far better if the sauna owners would just actively promote safe sex through poster, flyers and having condoms available on their premises.

[sextile]

Originally Posted by fountainhall

... .
... Far better if the sauna owners would just actively promote safe sex through poster, flyers and having condoms available on their premises.

-- Possibly owners and mngrs. etc. of saunas and other such places where M2M. and penetrative s*x may occur should be advised quite firmly -
- 'Have free condoms & lube. available at all times and for all; actively promote SAFE S*X - or else face CLOSURE!'
- This means fewer dinky, little and arty-f*rty posters, (such as one sees in B*BYL*N SAUNA.), but the MORE American 'In your face.' type of promotion that will impinge!
-- Bibi.. --

[stillthrobbing]

Originally Posted by fountainhall

Let's not forget, too, that in the USA saunas were closed in the 1980's soon after the extent of the HIV epidemic was discovered - and that rates in the US began to fall thereafter. (Granted that's a simplified conclusion - but closure of the saunas did contribute).

The cock thinks the sun rises because he crows. ;-)

Rates fell because of greater public education, largely organized by gay men themselves, and because of scientific progress toward treatment, for which gay activists pushed incessantly.

Closing saunas can have little or no effect on HIV transmission rates, but can only eliminate the possibility of saunas' being venues for education. Yes, they should provide condoms, and the government should support their doing so. A gay activist, no matter how dedicated and experienced, who doesn't understand this is tragically misguided.

[fountainhall]

The cock thinks the sun rises because he crows. ;-)

The problem with this cart before the horse theory (oops!) is that it took the US gay community and the bathhouse owners many years before anything was done about publicising the risk of unprotected sex.

If you read Randy Shilts' excellent history of the origins of HIV Aids "And The Band Played On", in Chapter 41 you'll see that bathhouse owners had deeply retrenched attitudes about co-operating with anyone. In 1984 when the facts about the virus were very clear, they even condemned the "uncaring and unscrupulous theocrats (who) have stooped to manipulate public fears about AIDS in order to serve their own private, political goals of eliminating first the gay baths, then the gay bars, then . . ."

But it was not only the religious right. Dr James Curran of the Centres for Disease Control said, "I wish the gay commuunity would officially express concern over bathhouses. I'd like to see all bathhouses go out of business . . Gay men need to know that if they're going to have promiscuous sex, they'll have a life expectancy of people in the developing world."

I grant you that eventually the bathhouse owners did come round to the need to actively promote AIDS awareness and safe sex - but only after thousands had died and huge numbers of bathhouses been forced to close.

they should provide condoms, and the government should support their doing so.

Totally agree with you. However, as highlighted in my first post on this thread and well known by anyone who reads the newspapers here, there seem to be many within the government who do not know (perhaps "choose not to know" is a more appropriate description) the importance of promoting condom use within the gay community. Expecting the government to do anything is therefore meaningless at this stage.

I once read of politics being described as the art of the possible. I believe the same can be applied to fighting HIV AIDS in Thailand. There's little point saying "the government should do this" or "educational authorities should do that". The fact is that in a deeply conservative society like Thailand they just ain't going to do it - at least not until international media exposure threatens tourism.

Similarly, from my limited understanding of the way gay saunas are operated, owners are not going to co-operate in spreading the safe sex message - unless they see a threat to their livelihoods. This is partly the shock therapy I believe Khun Natee is now administering.

Finally, whilst again totally agreeing with your basic premise, stillthrobbing, I just do not believe we should stand on the sidelines mouthing worthy slogans while many dozens of gay saunas around the country catering mostly to young Thai guys in their late teens and twenties do nothing to prevent what seems to be a vast increase in unprotected sex. As we know, they are gambling with their lives. The question is: how, realistically and practically, do we get them to realise that?

[sextile]

-- In a somewhat bitter and twisted mood I find it strange that here we are in TH. trying to promote SAFE S*X and yet CFS. - if I look aright at some of the adverts. and sponsors - actively promote Bare backing/Raw s*x! 'A puzzlement.'
-- Bibi. --

[fountainhall]

Hadn't thought of that, sextile, and of course you're right. But it's not only cfs - hundreds of sites are springing up promoting bareback sex, and it is much more commonly requested now in chat rooms. It's as if no-one cares any more.

[Bago]

In my younger days I frequented saunas every week. I did not get HIV but what I often got was other diseases -- urinary infections and fungus -- curable but not pleasant

[sextile]

-- On a lighter note, Gentle Reader, you might care to look-at the flg Youtube advert., wch. highlights the advantage of having been a Boy Scout -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8MN9F6_Mk4

- NB.: the above web-address concludes: ...F6_Mk4

-- The other and assoc'd. Youtubes shewn in the surrounds are worth watching, too.
-- Happy viewing. -- Bibi.. --