The problem ... and I realize I'm making a very broad generality ... is the disconnect between quality/service and attempts to generate more income in the face of dwindling business.

Setting minimum tips, raising the off fee, expecting customers to buy boys over-priced drinks ... might be acceptable if the boys were reasonably good looking and if they made a reasonable attempt to satisfy. Only focusing on ways to separate a customer from his cash without considering his satisfaction is counterproductive.

It might make some business sense if it's assumed the customer is a one-off tourist who will never return anyway and who will never say anything about his experience to other potential customers.

Considering all that's happened recently to discourage new tourists, I would guess that an increasing percentage of the business that bars and massage venues get comes from resident farang and people who return frequently, all of whom are inclined to share information.

I can't say I've ever experienced a pushy mamasan who became a problem. If I go to the bars at all it tends to be as soon as the door opens in the evening since the shows don't interest me. (Actually I wish more bars would open earlier) Maybe the mamasans aren't in pushy mode then. If one looks to be clingy I respond politely, ask a few questions, maybe buy a drink. If information is useful, I tip a bit on the way out. Never had one turn nasty or insist I call a boy over or buy anyone a drink.

Likewise with boys, I've had a few duds over the years, but never had anyone who was uncooperative or who was less than gracious in accepting a tip.

I think it's partly an issue of choosing a boy in the first place and how you treat him. I don't think boys really change their personalities once you walk out the door of the bar. Eye contact, body language. how he acts when you call him over (and not just what he says when you ask him something), possible sense of humour ... all these things should tell you a lot about how things will go once you leave, at least in terms of his personality.

The sexual response is less easily predictable, but you have to be fairly clear in what it is you want. The guys are not mind readers and what you want is probably not what the last 5 customers wanted nor is it what the boy would want if he were running the show.

That's why I consider the first off as a chance to measure potential. If the potential is there, subsequent offs tend to improve quickly as you get to know each other. It is, afterall, an intimate act, both physical & emotional, and not some assembly line manufacturing process.

I said earlier that in my next trip to Bangkok I would give it a go since for some reason I've never been in the place. But, in light of the overwhemling negative responses I've seen here and elsewhere, I think it would be a waste of time. Eye candy is nice, but there are cheaper sources in terms of costs both of time & money. I want a pleasant experience overall ...preferably one I wake up thinking about in future ... not one that leaves me grinding my teeth and composing irate rants on the message boards. So I agree with you and Jupiter will have to struggle on without my few baht.

Who is it that's keeping Jupiter in business anyway??

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