Quote:
Originally Posted by jonn3
There was a degree of safety in the days when it was not as stigmatized as in the more distant past - but before it was so accepted and out in the open.
We could play around but we knew no one would tell - no one would know. We were not forced to acknowledge anything before we were ready to accept it.
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The fact that the play was in total underground, and that it was a transgression made it special. My buddies and I had no doubt that other dudes were doing the same. And some rumors within the close-knit circles inevitably came through but stayed well within the circle of the dudes involved.
The notion that someone would spill the beans was virtually unknown. Sure, some dudes would inevitably get at odds with each other. But no one ever outed anyone or was spreading any gossip beyond very clearly defined boundaries.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonn3
Now there are Junior High Schools with "Gay - Straight Alliance Clubs" - and sure it is a great resource for those who want it - but it also is saying "you need to make a choice now".
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I believe that this is a sign of progress. And it is also a fact of life that won't change that easily. Yet, I still believe that some guys would intentionally choose to stay away from such alliances. For those who need support, such clubs can make a huge difference. For the others, they are of little or no importance. The counterproductive bit is that a few guys who tend towards safeguarding the privacy of their sexual lives feel compelled to stay away from the alliance dudes, simply because they do not want to be found 'guilty by association'. Some people will always tell you that it pays off to advertise. In the matters of private lives and sexual intimacy, this is a bit of dubious statement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonn3
I know growing up there were a lot of guys that played around to some degree - some were gay - some were bi - but most were just horny and needed an outlet.
When we fooled around neither of us thought of it as a relationship or even gay sex - we just wanted sex - and we wanted to make sure no one ever knew.
I think the confidence that no one would tell gave a lot of guys the courage to try it - some would try it once - other might do it for years - but they knew they could walk away at any time and not worry about being judged or stereotyped.
These days if I run into some I know at a gay bar or something I have to worry that if I run into him at work he will just talk about like it is no big deal - and as far as I am concerned it is no ones business.
I know that is just because of my generation - growing up when it was not OK to be gay or bi - but that is part of who I am.
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You really nailed it on the head here.
The attraction of the m2m sex beyond the obvious, i.e. getting your rocks off, which ALL the guys involved wanted to get, regardless of their real sexual orientation was the simple fact that no further obligations, consequences, gossip, etc. were likely to occur at any time. You connected with your buddies, fooled around, came for more or not. The sex did not carry any further consequences. We were in it for the pure fun factor.
Sure, one or the other dude fell for someone, and wanted more. Some got it, the others did not. But hardly any drama over it ever ensued. It was a NSA play, and no one doubted that.
I have run into a few co-workers, people I knew socially, etc., in the bars and other gay venues. I never failed to greet them, exchange few words, etc., but so far, no one bothered to start any gossip that I am aware of. This is probably a bit of a European cultural trait that leans heavily towards protecting privacy. Most guys go around minding their own business and though, I have little doubt that they find it interesting that they bumped into someone they know, that interest stays there.
Even guys who are totally out, and openly gay do not find it too meaningful to spread the details of their latest visits to the bars and clubs. They are happy to show up with their significant others, and project a societally conformist view of gay men who have their own families, and practically live heteronormative lives. Telling someone else that they met you, me or anyone else at one of the gay cruising venues is likely to blow that carefully constructed image that they are trying to maintain about themselves.
I always stop short of mentioning that it would be nice if they did not talk about our unintentional encounters at the gay venues. My openly gay acquaintances usually ask for this, though.
I always assure them that I go by the 'what happens in Vegas ... policy'. And you can see the big sigh of relief on their faces.
I have come to believe that many (certainly NOT all) gay men come out seeking societal approval, and are hence fearful that they may lose it if it becomes known that they are looking for sex beyond their suburban homes, and supposedly monogamous LTRs.
KD