Your friend was a lot braver than I was as a kid. I always hinted at things but I tried to get the other guy to make the first move... So there were lots of situations where I chickened out and probably missed out on some fun....





I very much agree. You see kids "coming out" who have never done anything - yeah some may "just know" they only like guys - but some of them may just be curious. I think some youthful experimentation with a buddy the same age is very helpful and gives the guys a better idea if they really are gay or not.

And once you have gone public like that on the internet there is no going back -

Quote |

The notion that anyone at any age should be telling everybody else about his sexual orientation is mostly a political, and lately a marketing/commercial matter. An openly gay guy is more likely to vote for a specific party, get engaged in pro-gay equality political agenda. He will be probably buying a specific underwear, drinking specific drinks, and saving up to buy a specific car, to mention the few.

On a personal level, being out is often experienced as a great act of 'liberation'. Yup, you can introduce your current BF as such, or your present hook-up as such, too. However, this is where the personal benefit stops. The notion that you would be more 'popular' among other guys just because you are openly gay is a common fallacy. You may be openly gay all you want. If this other dude does not find you attractive enough, not much will happen anyway. And being openly gay may scare a few interested guys away, simply because they do not wish to be guilty by association or even seen as publicly associating with openly gay men.

For many people who are living their lives on social media sites, telling everybody everything about themselves seems to be a total must. Now, with so many people sharing virtually everything with everybody else, the value of such shared information has decreased very significantly. I doubt that anyone really takes this seriously anymore, especially if it is coming from a 12 year old...

KD

Quote |

VERY true.

I know, especially when younger, there were some guys that were not openly gay but were very effeminate - and all of us avoided them due to that "guilt by association" - we figured if we hung out with them everyone would assume we were gay as well. The sad thing is not all of them were gay - but still just because of the way they acted or what they enjoyed they got stereotyped.

Quote |

To make the matters worse in this context, hanging out, or even being 'friends' with someone who is being perceived as gay or is openly gay, may scratch a dude's perfect str8 image with no benefit to him whatsoever.

You come across guys who, while not too comfortable with their escapades into the word of m2m sex, understand that there may be a societal price of some sort of ostracism if their affairs become known. Yet, they take this risk, because there is a reward for them there: they are getting their rocks off. Now, just hanging out with someone, and not getting much in return for being seen as 'not totally str8' is a less desirable option.

Fortunately, things have changed a lot recently. A number of str8 guys have gay friends, since the stigma attached to being gay is largely gone. But for the less liberal minded, small-town folks, the risk is unwelcome even these days.

KD

Quote |

Although I never had the luck you do hear tales of the star of the football team that had a sex buddy or some such set up. When I was a kid it would have been "guilt by association" - you did not hang out with the gay guys, or the druggies, etc and if you did other kids and parents would assume you were involved as well. The only group you could hang out with and not be part of were the jocks - but that is because it was assumed that "everyone wants to be a jock".

With my buddies I fooled around with there was no talk of romance or love - we kept it on a physical level - it was a need -we never wanted to address the fact it was also a desire.






Things have changed dramatically. When I was a kid you would have avoided they gay kid. Now there would be pressure NOT to ostracize someone just because he is gay.

However as KewlDewd stated previously - I don't understand why it is anyone business.

And some of these kids "coming out" on youtube or the like - some of them have not even hit puberty or have never had sex. And for them to be publicly stating they are gay - that is putting a life label on them way to young.

There were lots of guys that fooled around with other guys in their teens that eventually moved on to women - got married - had children - and many of them are very happy straight men - despite their youthful playing around.

It seems like today there is almost to much pressure to "accept who you are" and not accept that these are still kids trying to figure out who they are and maybe they are just trying different things as they work on learning who and what they will be as adults.

Quote |

I am also wondering about the tales or urban legends of a star athlete having a FB who happens to be your usual HS kid - neither a real jock nor a real geek nor a real nerd, but more like a mix of them all.

IMHE, the jock dudes usually kept to ourselves. You were other the team member of you were not. The admirers were usually viewed favorably, but the behind the locked doors action was usually between the two jocks who belonged to their own coterie.

Yup. I agree, only one dude, I knew admitted it was a desire, too. To me, the element of desire was simply too obvious, and it may have been obvious to the others, too. But talking about it, was just not in the cards.


I also believe that a big majority of the dudes we used to mess around with chose to live st8 lives. There is no way for anyone to know if some of them chose to have other relationships on the side. At least a couple of my now married-with-kids apparently str8 guys jumped on the opportunity to have sex with me again, away from their families at your typical convention hotels. Again, this was invariably one of those, one-thing-led-to-another, and for the sake of good ole' times thing. We never spoke about it. But we did joke about the old times, and the dudes we used to know, and the things that were going on behind the locked doors.

KD

Quote |

I suspect it is more urban legend than reality - but it sure made for great fantasy and an even better plot for gay porn films!




There were so many cases where one or the other of us "just happened" to have a new porn mag when we saw each other - and so often comments like "damn I wish there was a chick here" or "I wish my girlfriend would put out like that" would be responded with "well there aren't any girls here" ... the excitement, the enthusiasm and the frequency it happened made it very clear - we both loved cock - but would never admit it out loud.

I often wonder which I was more afraid of - admitting to him that I liked it or admitting it to myself.




"chose to live st8 lives" is a good way to put it.

The idea of being gay was not an easy option when we were kids. Although everyone knew about it they still mostly considered it a "sickness" and in MANY states right until the 80's it was technically illegal.

There were some guys that you knew were just doing it because they were horny and it was the only option - a one time or maybe a summer thing.

Others that were clearly bi - they fooled around a lot with guys but once the girls started putting out they lost interest or only did it when drinking....

And I know one guy I played around with who is now married with children who has told me if he grew up today he would probably be gay.

A lot of these guys live their "str8" lives - many of them even being completely faithful - but then they get online and spend the late night alone jacking off to gay porn.

And others when they are away on a business trip where no one knows them figure they can have a one night fling without being worried about getting caught....

Quote |

'Coming out' on the internet is not that big of a deal; unless, of course, you use your real name and make it easy for friends and family to find.

I think experimentation is a much bigger and more important process than 'coming out' on the internet. Usually, the internet is filled with people who fantasize about a certain thing, but never actually do it.

Once you venture into same-sex experimentation, you have to make sure you want to do it. Even during the younger years.

Quote |

Related but not quite the same, I read a news story this morning about reactions and fallout from the Ashley Madison hack. I posted that link to Facebook with this comment:

This is apropos to gay sites and apps including here on CFS. Yesterday I had a request to delete someone's profile because their username had come up in a Google search.

The CFS member profiles are not supposed to be indexed by Google or other search engines because of some back-end programming. This particular member's profile was not on Google, but a reply he made in a Message Board discussion did appear. To reiterate, posts on the Message Board, the Sex Listings, the Personals (Communal Stall) and the AdoptASexPig site do get indexed.

Thus, the usernames here do appear. We (moderators and I) try to edit Message Board posts to delete email addresses and contact info, and I do the same with the Sex Listings. However, your username is going to be out there.

About the Personals, the posts there "expire" after a certain time and I've followed a "use at your own discretion" policy there, letting people post what they want while suggesting they use common sense about contact information. The Pig site, meanwhile, was a pet project of Keith's from about 2005 onward; it gets little traffic these days and I may repurpose it at some point.

To get back on topic, there's an awful lot of people who have what we might call "multiple identities" or "multiple behaviors" but who simply don't use common sense when posting on the Internet or talking about their sexual selves. Many are too trusting of the security of random sites, others don't think about the idea that what they post now might be captured and re-posted elsewhere, even if they delete it. It's not just politicians and celebrities who learn this lesson to their dismay.

Now on to work, busy day ahead. ~ Bob

Quote |

NYT just published this article which actually says it all:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/20/op...heat.html?_r=0

KD

Quote |

It is amazing with the ease of creating a unique e-mail address that people would sign up for that site - or any sex site - with their standard name and e-mail address.

I know early on I created a hotmail address for use on gay websites as even at my age I still see no reason for the whole world to know who I want to have sex with.

Quote |

Now, this is where your reflexes kicked in. (And mine, too.)

At the time when you and I started messing around with the guys, this was a 'no-do'. Sure, people did it nonetheless, but we also spent quite some time and energy to make sure that we do not get caught. They say that necessity is mother of invention, right?

Most other dudes never needed to develop such reflexes. Their experience told them that they were the 'golden' boys, the mainstream. No matter what they did sexually, it was OK. This was something they were boasting about in the sports bar anyway...

So, they have never been on the run. Actually, they even do not know how it is to be on the run. Until one day, the sky comes falling on them...

KD

Quote |

About straight men who chase women some did actually make an effort to cover their tracks while others did have that sort of hubris. Think of Gary Hart, who essentially dared the press to find evidence of his affair.

Other prominent ostensibly straight celebrities got a sort of "free pass" in Hollywood if they played the game and took a girlfriend ("beard") to dates, parties, galas, etc., and she might have been lesbian or bisexual, too. It's really fascinating how many Hollywood people were what we now would call bi, although that label would seem odd to them and in their context to me, too. They simply lived their lives and loved and played with whoever they wanted to.

Similarly, straight politicians used to get a "free pass" on their affairs although sometimes there was gossip, i.e., "FDR had a girlfriend and Eleanor did, too." or the talk about JFK and Marilyn, not to mention Joe Kennedy and Gloria Swanson. You didn't get to know about the gay or MSM politicians until there was a fire at DC's Follies or someone set out to expose them.

Still, the full extent of these guys' infidelities was usually not made public -- even if known to journalists -- unless it involved something egregious or a matter of state. King Edward and Wallis Warfield Simpson were a lot more important than Prince Charles and Camilla Parker Bowles, although the latter couple were (and are) in the current "age of no secrets."

The thing is, these days anything anyone does potentially can be made public. The public at large may not care, but some spouse or significant other might. So many people share passwords with their S/O or leave their phone sitting around for the S/O to look at. Anyone who does that should not be surprised at whatever happens.

Quote |