Am I Gay?
 

I am a healthy 40yo WM. All my life I have been terribly attracted to women. Indeed, the sight of a beautiful woman still takes my breath away.

However, over the past year I have experimented by going to gay baths and spas. I have had several M to M sexual encounters. They are quick and nameless, and immensely enjoyable. In particular, I have developed a real love for giving head. In particular, I enjoy taking a hit or two on a small vial of poppers, and then surrendering my mouth to a man.

I am not interested in any sort of relationship with a man; in fact, I do not want to know my partners' names and I do not even want to speak with them: I simply drop to my knees and perform. Once they finish, we never meet again.

My habit now requires that I go to a spa at least 2 times per month. I have sucked off as many as five guys in a 4-hour setting.

My question is this: Am I gay? I think that women are beatiful and I am not attracted to men. I simply love the feel of a cock in my mouth.

What does all this mean?

You are a bisexual, my friend.
Enjoy yourself, play safe, and don't analyze things so much.
You are who you are.

Beautiful women take my breath away too, and I'm gay. I'm also not particularly interested in an intimate relationship with a man, yet, I'm gay and I also prefer anonymous sex in book stores, baths etc...and I'm again, gay.

Really, only you know if you're gay, bi or straight and only you know if there's validity to a statement of sucking five cocks off in a bath house, twice a month, and still not be attracted to men.

I'm not physically attracted to women and hence am not eating pussy on a bi-monthly basis, no pun intended ;-)

The other guy who posted probably has the best advice, don't analyze it so much and like I stated, only you know the real answer as to what your sexual preferences are.

I agree with the others, you are who you are. Do you need a label for that? How will things be different if you decide you are gay?

Thank you for the thoughtful responses. It just seems hard for me to call myself gay, or even bisexual, when I am not attracted to men, only their sex organs during anonymous sex.

DUH an attraction to male sex organs is a male attraction. It doesnt matter if you have an emotional attachment to whom they are attached! You are living in some sort of fantisy. I assume the society or family pressure of how bad it is to be gay/bi really has your brain warped.

Just because you resolve this issue doesnt mean you have to come out and tell everyone or live a sterotype "gay" lifestyle. Everyone goes through some sort of an understanding of ones self and you continue to focus where you have been pointed by society. You need to get over the guilt.

Let me assure you that "straight" society would not consider you straight with your fixation on male organs!

Go to a gym and stare at some of the "straight" guys organs and see what kind of comments you get or other reaction you get! Buy some pictures of nude men and leave them around for your friends and family to see and see what they think about that...

Since I'm on line anyway, why not cut the guy some slack?

If he is uncomfortable with the concept of being "gay" so be it. There was supposed to be a "Sound of Music" sing-a-long here in Atlanta for Gay Pride Weekend, and the guys were asked to come in leiderhosen. If that is what being gay is, hell, I'm as straight as a nail.

PHXBOT, if you chose to not call yourself gay, and that is what gets you through the night, all the more power to you. If to you, gay=flaming queen and you don't fit the bill, that's fine. But you do like sucking dick, which happens to be very pleasant, you frequent bath houses, and sorry, that is gay behavior. Just because a duck has most of the attributes of a goose does not "make" it a goose. It's still a duck. However, ducks don't know that the big hairless ape-like creatures have named them ducks. Nomenclature is great if you need to classify things, but it doesn't actually change anything after the lable has been applied.

Hope this helps. So to answer your question, yes you are, but don't hassle the details because it isn't going to get you anywhere in the end. All of us have gone through the same confusion you are now facing. Good luck to you.

Dr Danny
(and no, I'm not a psychiatrist)

I agree with the others - if you like to suck cock, enjoy. I wouldn't worry about the label either.

However, I find it difficult to believe that you are "not attracted to the men, just the sexual organs." Would you treat an 80 year old man with a hard cock the same way you would a 30 year old with the body of Adonis? If so, then I would agree with you, it's just the cock you're interested in. If you're only interested in the young guy, you're like most of the gay guys out here.

I don't think the type of the experience (anonymous v. taking someone home and making passionate love) is the determining factor in your orientation. Many gay guys enoy and/or prefer anonymous sex. Some guys prefer to suck a cock through a glory hole, never seeing it's owner. It doesn't make them any less gay.

Of course you are not gay
 

anymore than a straight guy who likes, receiving anal intercourse, is gay.

Anyway what's in a name a cock by any other name would feel as sweet?

When you are hot you are hot
When you are not you are not

Relax enjoy and experiment. Please do not worry about names.

Ummmm......I honestly can't say anything more then what has already been said.

So enjoy yourself , and have some safe fun.

am i gay
 

a hard cock by any other name is a hard cock 9i see his way of thinking some of us are not selective but just want the experience

If I called you a Cocksucker, would you be offended by that label because your cocksucking behavior looks remarkably like the cocksucking behavior of gays? As a confirmed, cardcarrying homosexual myself, I'm not the least bit offended by the label of cocksucker since one of my sexual behaviors is ... sucking cock.

The question begs an answer which only you, and only you, knows. Being Gay or a cardcarrying Homosexual is more about a constellation of behaviors which are uniquely Gay or Homosexual.

I wouldn't worry about being labeled Gay unless you suddenly develop an obsession with redecorating your home, you find yourself dreaming and lusting for Norm Abram, and you watch "This Old House" reruns to fulfill your sexual fantasies.

I agree with BMG. Other signs are using the word "fabulous," making it a point to stay home to watch the Tonys, knowing the difference between chiffon and charmeuse, and watching Bravo. If you do these things, you're a big ole' homo. If you like sucking cock or getting your cock sucked, you're a man. Ignore the labels and enjoy getting your nut.

Wait a minute.

I generally stay away from these types of threads because they are highly subjective and no one can possibly mold the feelings and thoughts of the guy asking the question.

Usually our standard response is to NOT worry about labels.

Yet we just told him several stereotypical traits and habits which might make him gay. I'm aware that this was done on a mostly facetious level.

It was rather campy, too. And, of course, campiness is a sure sign of gayness, isn't it?

I'M gay and I do not know the difference between the two fabrics Sam mentioned. Hell, I don't even know how to spell them and I'm too lazy to look back and copy Sam's text!

I hate Bravo. I hate Logo. I haven't redecorated in years and don't care. I never say "fabulous." I could not care less about the Tony awards.

But I'm a fag.

Are we telling this guy that it is femme behavior he must be cautious of? Or are we saying that his dick sucking desires alone are enough to make him queer?

"Don't worry about labels, but here's a few things that will definitely label you as a fag. Oh, and by the way -- you are engaging in gay behavior no matter what your mannerisms may or may not be."

We can't get away without labels in some form or another. Labels are, in fact, often essential to one's own psychological development during our formative, younger years and also as we age and enter various stages of life development. Labels can be beneficial to our sense of SELF.

FRETTING over a label choice is something entirely different, and can lead to much anguish and confusion. I'll agree there.

When most of us came out of the proverbial closet, didn't it feel GOOD to FINALLY know who we were? Weren't you relieved to understand your sexuality at that point?

Some were lucky NOT to ever question their orientation. But many (if not most) were not. The vast majority of gay men went through a period of indecisiveness and questioning, would you agree?

I support the bottom line here -- the guy shouldn't WORRY about it. But we all know from experience that we didn't truly go out and suck dick and have a "gay old time" with other men and NEVER ponder WHO or WHAT we were.

"Know thyself." I think that is a strong statement and of great benefit to a well-developed personality.

The trick is also to ACCEPT yourself.

What I'd like to tell t his guy is that he can select any label he likes, as long as he doesn't denigrate his own behavior and let guilt get in the way of his personal happiness in life.

He is also free NOT to choose any label -- so long as he is comfortable with THAT choice. If a label helps him develop his sense of self, go for it. If it only serves to confuse him more, relinquish it for now.

One does not have to be stereotypical-gay to still be gay. Any one of us who has ever cruised ANY gay scene can attest to the fact that one of the most intriguing aspects of it all is the myriad mix of different types of guys.

It's a fantasy to have a world without labels. That world does not exist. Nor is a world without labels what we should strive for, either.

We just have to be happy being who we are. I think that's something we all agree upon.

I have to chime in here again as well. I have to admit, I was a little offended and well, more pissed, when I read the comments about what it means to be "Gay". Of course, I do know it's all said in jest , however, it annoys me that the mainstream culture views all gay men like that and that gay men try to perpetuate that image.

I have never watched the Tony awards, suck at decorating, never say fabulous or watch any of those home improvement shows. Why? It just doesn't interest me, that's all. Does this make me any less gay? Fuck no, because I'm still sucking cock and taking dick up my ass on a regular basis. I date men, have had long term relationships with men and get aroused my men all the time. So, yeah, I'm gay and do feel like I have a gay lifestyle just because I participate in some of it, ie., sucking dick, getting fucked, cruising, watching sports games at gay bars.

See, there are a whole lot of different parts of the community, and that includes the fabulous touting men, the guys who can decorate your place like nobodys business and also the guys who are kind of slobs, don't know the first thing about decorating, but make a great fuck or partner for another guy and can be a positive asset for the community as well.

I feel excuded enough when I see the mainstream hetero culture viewing the gay community that way...not because I have anything against that part of our community, I just feel left out and think that if the "whole" community was represented, we'd make a lot more headway in our social progress because more of the mainstream culture could identify with us, not the just the part that accepts or enjoys the company of the gay men described here in the other posts.

Okay, guess tha'ts all ;-)

I LOVE your post. You used "fabulous" in the third paragraph! :D

It was meant in jest. . .

I think there is some confusion as to what gay or straight actually is. I've heard lots of hopefull gays wanting to turn bi or straight types into gays (in their minds) to make themselves feel better. That's a fantasy.

I've known gays that were married for 20 years. 20 years of fucking and yes caring about their wives and having orgasms never meant they were straight.

The opposite is also true. You can suck cocks and have orgasm, and if you are truly not interested in men other than to have orgasms, then you are NOT gay anymore than a closeted gay having sex with his wife 20 years makes him straight.

If you want a relationship or would prefer a relationship, both sexually and psychologically, with a woman, then I'd call that straight, regardless if you suck cocks and have orgasms. Now if you question the validity of that statement, consider its opposite--If you want a relationship or would prefer a relationship, both sexually and psychologically, with a man, then I'd call that gay, regardless if you eat pussy and have orgasms.

The problem is in the terms: bisexual means having sex with both sexes, but it gets confused with being gay and straight at the same time. It does not mean you are equally attracted to men and women, as the simple minded would have you think, nor does it mean you are gay. It means you enjoy sexual relations with both sexes. It does not stipulate whether or not you like men's bodies as well as women's, or if you jsut want to have an orgasm. It's a very misleading term out of context. There is a great difference between having sex and being gay, although the two can correspond equally. That is, gay men have sex with men. But that doesn't mean a gay man can't enjoy an orgasm with a woman and remain "gay." The oposite, if true, is also true. Put onother way, "gay" is not a sexual act alone no more than straight is.

If you were honestly gay, you'd probably go to other places men frequent also so you could "have their company." In other words, you'd probably act toward men like others do toward women, probably how you act towards women right now.

So just ignore anyone who tries to categorize you. Be an autonomous individual and do what you want to do. Be truthful with yourself, and you'll know "what you are," and don't let other people define who you are.

No, you're gay.
 

For many it emerges as attraction to just the cock and progresses to more intimate things like kissing and fucking. It's just very hard for most to overcome the social training of NOT loving a man or wanting a love relationship with one. But these are just hurdles you'll jump in due time. Many guys will suck dick at the beginning but refuse to kiss because it's too "gay". Doesn't make much sense.

The best thing to do would be to stop resisting and maybe try thinking of yourself involved with a man. Trying to convince yourself that you're straight but just happen to like sucking cock is just postponing the inevitable.

It's very PC but also misguided to tell people "labels aren't important" or "it's only important what YOU think you are" but in reality, self-deception is not healthy in the long term.

Haven't we all had experience with enough closet cases who thought the way this guy is thinking but inevitably came busting out of the closet in taffeta?

And we all find beautiful women fun to look at. But we'd rather dress them or take them shopping and to lunch than fuck them.

Re: No, you're gay.
 

A good example of what I mean. Actually, you are right for some. And you are wrong for others. But really, just give yourself time. For many, being straight emerges first as only wanting to dress women and look at them, but give it time and you will get over the "I'm I straight?" social training. And most importantly, "The best thing to do would be to stop resisting and maybe try thinking of yourself involved with a woman. Trying to convince yourself that you're gay but just happen to like looking at and dressing women is just postponing the inevitable."

So you can all see how rediculous this sounds when turned around. Like I said, be honest with yourself. If you're gay, you know it. I say this becsaue I've had several gay and lesbian friends, and not one of them said they needed to "learn" to be gay. They knew it since they were in puberty and some before.

Now this may amuse you. My last close girl friend, nonsexual, was a lesbian gal with a live in GF. She's never dated men, except to look "normal" when younger, and she knew that she was not attracted to men for relationships.

One night while her GF was away for a couple of weeks, she got horny and we started talking sex on the phone. Next thing I know she's at my front door with her miniskirt on and no panties. Fuck we had good sex. I mean kissing, hugging, making out after we both came, etc.

Still, when it was over and after I asked WTF was going on, she said muscles on guys turn her on, but nothing much else. She also explained that she was practically a nympho and that she hadn't had sex or masterbated in two weeks. She was busy with her small farm and working and just really wasn't thinking on those terms. When we started talking, she said just started thinking about being turned on to me (because I am very muscular and tall) and lost it. (We hadn't talked in about 2 months.)

So do I think she's really straight? nope. I know her true feelings and I have to respect that. And no, we have not ever done that again. She keeps her distance from me. Just to say also that I am very attracted to her and I could REALLY like her. We get along very well and were both attracted like crazy physically to each other. But it ain't gonna work, and I know that.

Situation can't be reversed
 

There's no taboo about being straight therefore reversal is nonsensical.

Refusing to define one's sexuality is like believing there's a third political ideology.

Can gay man fuck a woman? Maybe. Does that make him bi? No.

The guy's situation is classic. The fact that he asks "Am I gay?" means he is looking for guidance, assistance or affirmation. Even those who know they are gay often can't fathom it actually happening to them so they don't commit to it and instead live in the middle ground we try to define as "bisexual". All that means is you refuse to accept what is.

Re: Situation can't be reversed
 

I disagree with your idea that the analogy is really a disanalogy--because if one were "gay" and thought he was "straight" for the same reasons in this trhread, then there is good reason to think that the person might be equally confused, regardless of what psychological hangups some people have or have not given social norms.

What you are trying to do, and this is my point, is play social-psychologist instead of scientist--which means dealing with only the evidence and facts presented in this thread--not unjustified social-psychology.

Bottom line: If you are honest with yourself and you think you are either gay or straight given your attractions AND needs, then you are or are not.

There are many myths which exist in Queer culture. Debunking the one which says labels don't matter ranks in importance as the one about humor-impaired sock puppet users.

The reason why I self-identify as a homosexual is because I'm not a heterosexual-impaired male. If the overwhelming majority of a male's sexual partners just happen to be male, that is a pretty good indicator of that person's sexual orientation and attraction. Yes, there are indeed heterosexual-impaired males out there. Many are married, have the legal marriage license to prove it, and some even have fathered children. Many of these "married with children" males somehow manage to find themselves having sex with other males when the opportunity to engage in homosexual behavior is situationally dependent. Thus, it is possible for a heterosexual-impaired male to find himself situationally queer or homosexual when the opportunity to engage in such behavior is relatively free of risks.

Do labels matter? If you are attracted to women but find yourself going to gay baths occasionally to suck cock, the label of cocksucker is very appropriate. There is nothing wrong with self-identifying as a heterosexual-impaired cocksucker. When it comes to cocksucking, it doesn't matter if the cock you are sucking is attached to a male who self-identifies as gay, bisexual or straight. What does matter is males have cocks -- and women don't.

The question "Am I Gay" is probably better asked and answered if rephrased as "Am I Queer". Not that labels really are that important anyhow, right?

Well, I'm not sure what you mean when you use the term "heterosexual-impaired male." I assume you mean a malke who is gay and closeted, for whatever reason. But I think I agree with what you are trying to say.

Remember there are guys who are in love with their wives and both of them suck cocks together from time to time. But the male doesn't secretly desire to have a gay relationship and be divorced from his wife.

Take another example of the prison inmate who sucks his cellmates cock, and vice-versa, but when he gets out does not "turn gay."

The main point here is simple. If you honestly desire to have relations with a female, you pursue them, have sex with them, and hang out where you can interact with them as opposed to desiring to have relationships with men, have sex with them, hang out where gay men hang out, then you are straight. The opposite is also true.

Trying to psyco-analyze "all men" with only a specific sample is committing the "specific to general" fallacy.

Those who think that wanting to suck a cock is a percursor to being gay are playing right into the religious right's hand, since they too think that this "learning" is a social thing and being gay can be unlearned. It's not only about social norms, but very real biological and innate drives that no one has control over.

Deer are said to be "bi-sexual" but that doesn't mean they are "gay." Bucks are seen humping each other all of the time, but when that female goes into estrus, they ain't humpin each other anymore. Since deer have no social norms, since they are not cognitive of such concepts, this is a good example of biological drives only--it's a sexual need. It doesn't just turn off when a female in estrus is not around.

Specific200 ~

Apparently ... labels do matter and are important because of the necessity to make distinctions which don't really make a substantive difference. This is probably the underlying reason why I don't use the label 'Gay' when referring to myself as a homosexual. I will sometimes refer to myself and others as 'Queer' to emphasize the essential underlying sexual orientation and attraction that distinguishes homosexuals from heterosexuals. Let's keep in mind that 'Queer' does not necessarily mean abnormal as opposed to normal. After all, just because a majority of people are heterosexuals does not mean heterosexuality is the 'norm', and all others are abnormal because they are a minority.

I don't dispute that there does exist 'situational' homosexuals whose essential underlying sexual orientation and attraction is heterosexual. Male and female prisoners are an excellent example of the 'situational' homosexual. The reality of the prison incarceration environment and the conspicuous absense of available female sex partners makes it possible for an inmate to be a 'situational homosexual' without changing their essential sexual orientation and attraction upon release from confinement and having access to female sex partners. We also do need to keep in mind that many such 'situational homosexuals' confined and imprisoned will 'buddy up' with another male inmate to survive and thrive in a prison environment where rape and gang rape crimes are a daily reality of that environment. Upon release from imprisonment or confinement, many such situational homosexuals will revert back to their essential underlying sexual orientation and attraction. Another reality of the prison incarceration environment is aggression and controlling that aggression.

Prison officials ... administrators and staff alike ... have long recognized that depriving male prisoners of a sexual outlet for extended and lengthy periods of time may induce aggressive behavior within a male prison population. Most prisons are overpopulated and horribly understaffed which makes controlling aggressive behavior paramount. Again, situational homosexuality in a prison environment helps reduce aggression and lends itself to controlling the male inmate population.

We need to recognize that 'situational homosexuality' does exist and it does not change a person's essential underlying sexual orientation and attraction. Just what constitutes a person's essential underlying sexual orientation and attraction is debatable as a question of Nature versus Nurture.

So, apparently, labels do matter to many people. It is pointless to pretend labels don't matter when our behavior often makes that point for us despite our denials to the contrary. A point made, I would argue, by the heterosexual-impaired male who somehow manages to become a 'situational homosexual' whenever he finds, on occasion, his way to a male gay bathhouse to have sex with other males. We can be absolutely certain this 'situational homosexual' (heterosexual-impaired males) is not going to a gay bathhouse for the purpose of female sexual intimacy.

Labels are important so we have a general or even specific idea of what it is we want to talk about. But I have some real reservations with your use of terms:

---------
"We need to recognize that 'situational homosexuality' does exist and it does not change a person's essential underlying sexual orientation and attraction. Just what constitutes a person's essential underlying sexual orientation and attraction is debatable as a question of Nature versus Nurture.

So, apparently, labels do matter to many people. It is pointless to pretend labels don't matter when our behavior often makes that point for us despite our denials to the contrary. A point made, I would argue, by the heterosexual-impaired male who somehow manages to become a 'situational homosexual' whenever he finds, on occasion, his way to a male gay bathhouse to have sex with other males. We can be absolutely certain this 'situational homosexual' (heterosexual-impaired males) is not going to a gay bathhouse for the purpose of female sexual intimacy."
-------------

First, situational homosexuality can be extended to outside of the prison environment. If you are a male who desires females, and hookers and barflys don't do it for you, then you have a situation. That's my main point using the prison example, not to pigeon hole the term "situational homesexual" into a prison only environment.

Second, sexual orientation for the vast majority of people is biologically determined--the vast majority of people have a strong attraction to the opposite sex. If we didn't have this attraction, we could never have gotten where we are as a race, no animal could. It starts with biology. This doesn't mean we cannot learn to be gay and lesbian, because that study has already been confirmed among more primitive cultures. But this is a huge digression. The guy simply was asking if he was "gay," not if he was condintioned or born that way. Perhaps he was conditioned to be gay (for whatever reason) and his biology, which may be biologically determined attracted to females is confusing him, or vice versa. Only he can figure that out.

Third, why do you call males "heterosexual-impaired" when they want hetero sex but cannot or are not getting it from females, that they more so desire? (Watch how many "gay" guys flock to get off with a women when she comes into a ABS. Fucking line out the door practically.)

Their heterosexuality is not impaired, but rather their ability to partake in heterosexual encounters with a female does not keep pace with their sexual needs. Perhaps that is what you mean, but the term sounds less descriptive and more psychological. Again, if you have a straight forward definition and any evidence to support that definition, I'd be more than happy to have a look.

Last, you are right, males visiting male bath houses are not looking for female fun. I'd put the vast majority of guys at male bath houses in the gay or definitively and truly "bi-gay" area. They are not confused about it. Along the same line of reasoning, guys who need an orgasm and have learned to or have some natural turn on sucking a cock or letting another man suck theirs behind a GH are not confused about their sexuality either. They desire females, want a female for a relationship, and don't have that reality, and they are still horny and want an orgasm.

My only point to this thread was this: Don't let anyone try to tell you what you are or label you. That's a brainwashing game. You know what you desire, and only you can tell you what you are and label yourself. If you look to others to answer questions like "Am I gay" then each one will tell you what they think you are, or should be, or whatever you want to hear to get in your pants, which may not even come close to reality.

Simple test: If you truly desire to have sexual and psychological relationships with males on a continuing basis and you do not desire to have that type of relationship with a females, that is, you are not attracted to females physically and do not desire to have intimate, psychological and sexual relationships with women, given your healty mind and childhood (no brainwashing, abuse, etc.) then you are probably gay or at least gay oriented. And even if you were brainwashed or socially integrated into being gay, and you desire the above scenario, then you are probably, for all practical reasons, gay. (You may not desire to unlearn gay affiliation, if that hypothetical is even possible, which given anthropological studies I've read, is not only possible, but actual. Those who learned to be gay--to stop over population in this one study--didn't want to go back having sex and relationships with females that they were originally attracted to--again, a big digression. Incidentally, there was a problem with under population in that study until people got re-adjusted to heterosexual relationships. Very interesting indeed.)

The only reason labels are important is because society places moral judgments on them. Being heterosexual is viewed for the most part as moral, while gay, bi etc., are usually not, although, times are changing, even if at a snails pace.

Well adjusted gay men usually are angered by bi or closeted gay men not abiding by these labels because they feel it’s a cop out that they’re not identifying as truly bi or gay due to the fear of judgments that will be placed on them, which, affects how you view yourself.

BMG is right on with the situational homosexuality. It’s a valid sociological term and is mostly mentioned when talking about prisons since situational homosexuality, or anything situational for that matter, is caused by a controlled environment, such as a prison, where the environment is controlling you, not the other way around. So, a heterosexual male that wants to orgasm, and isn’t into barfly’s or hookers, is not being controlled by any means, therefore, if he chooses to seek out a male for sexual gratification, it’s at his own free will. Does this make him bi? I’d say yes, but, most posts I read here on these forums from guys usually say no and will give them the benefit of the doubt I have. However, my true feelings are that when it comes to men that seek out sex with men at their own accord and free will, I can't see how this makes them heterosexual. Having sexual attraction and activity with both sexes, is after all "bi-sexual".

It would be ideal if we lived in a society where labels didn’t matter and it was just “Do you prefer to have sex with men, women or both?” No judgments or reactions, just people expressing their sexual desires in a safe and comfortable environment in which they can be attained without having to resort to deception or lying to one’s self in order to maintain dignity and respect.

When you say "such as a prison, where the environment is controlling you, not the other way around," are you implying that the prisoner cannot choose not to participate is sexual relations with other men? If on the other hand the prisoner can choose to not have sexual relations with another man, then the effect society has on anyone is a matter of degree, and not kind. You seem to have this very real need, for whatever reason, to treat this subject as a matter of kind, not degree. That's why labels are a hard sell in many cases. That matter of degree thing--some call it gray area--is something that completely or nearly completely straight and gay people do not get. It tends to piss off straights and gays, but to different ends. So I'll agree to disagree with you on that subject.

However, again we digress. This subject is whether or not this guy is gay. Again, and this will be my final post on the subject, sexual activity with the same sex does not make--nor can it make--one gay, or straight. And I believe I've already said all I have to say on that subject.

No "need" really, just my thoughts and opinion on the subject.

I can meet you half way here though because I do understand the "kind" and "degree" theory you just stated.

Interesting discussion and one we could talk about forever I'm sure. Hopefully the original poster got something useful out of it.

The point is what designates on as gay? Obviously if having sex with and being married to a women for 20 years does not make a gay man straight, why, then, would having sex with a male make a man gay?

The answer is the same as I have already stated--because sexual acts cannot make one gay or straight. They may indicate whether one is gay or straight, but they have no causal power to "make" one gay or straight.

If sex acts had power to make one either straight or gay, then all gays would need to do is have sex with females and they would be miraculously straight.

If gay males get pissed off because they think the guy sucking their dick in an ABS *HAS* to be gay are deluding themselves as much those religious nuts who think they can "cure" a truly gay or lesbian person.

If it weren't for the fact that homosexuals are second class citizens, we could declare victory and everyone would be happy. But, don't let the label of second class citizen offend you if it makes your life a little more difficult or inconvenienced in some way.

But, we arn't happy because we are not first class citizens. If homosexuals were first class citizens, we'd be able to legally marry and enjoy all of the legal and binding enollments which attach to the legal sanction of marriage. If homosexuals were first class citizens, we could not be arbitrarily fired from our jobs for being homosexual. If homosexuals were first class citizens, we could not be arbitrarily denied housing on the basis of our homosexuality.

And, yes, if homosexuals were first class citizens, we could demonstrate our patriotism and become members of the armed services without having to compromise our dignity as human beings by the denigrating effect of "don't ask, don't tell, don't inquire" doublespeak hypocrisy.

But, homosexuals are not first class citizens. And some of us Queers are not happy with the status quo which marginalizes our very existence on the fringes of society.

So, when someone begs the question "Am I gay", it ought to be abundantly clear that some labels do matter when it comes to whether or not you are a first class citizen as a matter of principle with the enforcement of the law and the Constitutional protections of our liberties and freedoms.

Again, this thread is not about being a first class citizen and gay rights. It's about if a guy who started the thread is gay. He never said, "If I come out, I might not be able to marry, so today I'm not gay."

And don't be so fast to write off those who suck your cock at a GH once in a while, but know they are not gay, who vote for those who support gay rights, and all rights for that matter, and write letters to their representatives, and voice publically their opposition to such people, and still call themselves straight--or more accurately, "not gay."

Your issue isn't a gay only issue. It's a rights issue that applies to all people, regardless of what label they have. When gays stand up for gay rights, it puts a face on the issue, for sure, and more faces makes the point that gays are everywhere and a part of society.

But when straights talk out about gay rights, it allows other straights to see that it's ok to speak out for gay rights without having thier sexual identity questioned--from both straights and then as a double wammy, gays too.

That tactic could cause more harm to gay rights than any other single thing I can think of, simply because it puts-off and eventually excludes a sizeable amount of people from supporting--at least publically-- the equal rights for gays.

Those who have bisexual encounters once in a while, but know they are not gay, may be a sizeable (and perhaps growing) population and gay rights biggest ally. Don't exclude us by trying to tell us what we are.

???
 

Who cares? I am what I am and happy with it!!!

maybe your bisexual
 

You're lucky you started earlier than I did, I only sucked a guy off when I was 52. It was after my divorce and I was sort of wary of women and always thought about being with a guy. Anyway, I picked a guy up via the internet, one of the chat rooms and met him at my office on a weekend night and sucked him off. It was terrific, I loved sucking his cock and still am an avid cocksucker. I remarried but still see guys, I consider myself bisexual, it's great, I have twice the choices. However, most of my contacts now are with guys cause I just love sucking cock, could do it everyday and everynight. I love having a cock in my mouth and am trying to deep throat. I'm getting better and certainly wish I had started earlier. You young guys are lucky. But don't worry about the gay thing, it's not really important, a silly label. I suck off straight, bisexual (mostly) and gay guys, don't see any difference in their cocks, they are all good.

You KNOW what you are. Nobody else can tell you.

However, I find it difficult to believe that you are "not attracted to the men, just the sexual organs." Would you treat an 80 year old man with a hard cock the same way you would a 30 year old with the body of Adonis? If so, then I would agree with you, it's just the cock you're interested in. If you're only interested in the young guy, you're like most of the gay guys out here.


BELIEVE IT BABY! If it's hard I will suck it, if not I will make it so. I don't care what it's attached to. I done me some fat ol trolls. I LOVE women I like men. I don't like kissing men not because they are men but because they kiss like men. I have even dated men, hot smart funny men that I liked a lot and it ended up just being a blow and bolt. Didn't want to cuddle with the hot hairy hunk. That would be my male preference too a man just like me, if I was picking out men. But I am not I am always picking out women. You KNOW what your sexual orientation is. Nobody else can say.

COCKSUCKERSLUT is Hetroflexible.

It can just be sex but it's better if it's more
 

I know I've done one night stands, the result of being horny and just wanting to suck cock but I like it better if I can have a conversation with the guy and if he has a body like Adonis, that's a super turn one. With some guys, I like to fondle and kiss, it's very nice, and it adds to the sexual experience. Obviously this is what is known as a sexual attraction. And of course if the guy fondles back and gets involved that's also a turn on. It's pretty obvious whether your partner just wants your mouth to be a cunt and slams away until he cums or if he is trying to have a pleasant experience with another person. I try to avoid the former but in the early days I did have a couple of unpleasant experiences with the later and quickly ended the session. Though I'm sure some guys might not mind being treated like an object to be used or abused.

I do agree, you know what your sexual orientation is though when I first started it was being clarified in my mind partly because I was resisting it. Now if someone asks, I'm bi-sexual. This implies to me that I'm interesting in the emotional side as well as the sexual side. I have a few regualr contacts and they are friends I don't consider them lovers and I don't believe they consider me anymore than a good friend. I seriously read someone's profile, their comments and I engage in some sort of priliminary conversation prior to meeting someone. If I have a good impression, I'll meet with straight guys, gays or bisexuals. Though I've noticed that the straight guys are often uptight and I suspect really don't like us or feel terribly guilty about the whole affair.

One of the previous entries posited the idea that bisexuals are probably on the side of gays when it comes to social acceptance and I think that is certainly true. I know I support them and totally accept their right to choose. One of my regualr contacts is gay and he's terrific in bed, has a beautiful cock and be reciprocates masterfully. I enjoy being with him and fondling him in bed. I guess there is a continuum of sexual activity that runs from one night stands (just sex) to casual sex ( sex and an effort by the partners to explore an emotional connection) and up to social sex (regular meetings with sex and a social/emotional connection) up to lover (sex/social and emotional connection between the partners) and ending in committed partners. Each step in the continuum may have many variations.

One could be a pig at a sex party and just provide sucking and fucking and other services with no emotional connection at all. But that may be what someone's psyche needs at that juncture in their life. Or one may just want to explore being a pig to see what it's like. I admit that I like being the main cock sucker in a three some or foursome, like serving the other guys with my oral and anal orifices, find it really sexually stimulating but I do it only with my regular contacts and sometimes they bring a friend (and we have to agree on his being allowed into the group). For this is role playing and I like to explore my limits and at the same time we are all exploring that. In any case, it's all great fun. I hope all you guys find what you want and don't hurt anyone unless that's what they want. A nice whipping now and then can be very stimulating, don't you think?

I am BI and I like it
 

The original poster and I sound a lot alike.

My wife is hot and I have two sons. I never had a lack of female companions and have done everything under the sun sexually with women.

In high school I started thinking about guys but never acted on it.

At the ripe old age of 40 I got divorced and my best friend who IS gay and I were in my condo looking at porn
( didn't I KNOW what was cumming next ?) when he just bent over and started giving me head.

We ended up in the bedroom in a hot 69 and the rest is history. I know see him very occasionally.

Nine years later I go to the Roman holiday at least twice a month, meet guys and have sex. I fuck, have never been fucked, don't really like to suck cock but like getting sucked and I rim.

Every time that I did something I got a little bolder. it took me a LONG time to go to a bath house or actually call someone and get together at their house just to have sex.

I actually engaged in " small talk ' with one of my first internet connections and he had to basically tell me that that was not the way this type of encounter was played so why waste time.

I'll still go to a TJ whorehouse and fuck a girl on Monday and go to the RH on a Tuesday with no reservations whatsoever. I really do not question my masculinity at all, I just like variety.

I have gotten over my guilt completely. I felt guilty for a long time though. Now my friend just says to enjoy it, at least I have choices others don't.

What I like about the Bi experience is perhaps that there are never any strings attached, no negotiations, no cash, no nothing. Just a good ol fashioned good time.

I do have three " regulars " that I get together with and they know what the name of the game is. Nothing more than sex.

As another poster wrote, relax, don't label it and enjoy.