Sexual Preference for Specific Race of People
 

I was reading with a lot of interest the now closed topic of Asians in Los Angeles Sex Clubs....I am a similar question...

I live in Dallas, Texas. I USED to enjoy going to Midtown Spa from time to time.....maybe one or two times each month. Now however I don't even go to this club as it has been almost completely taken over by
black people on friday and saturday nights. This would not be a problem for me if I found myself attracted to black people but I don't. The other problem is that the few white and Latin people who do go there are usually the subject of harassment by the blacks if we will not have sex with them. I am not interested and I have talked with others who are not interested either. Why do these people (blacks) feel the need to be so aggressive when we make it clear that we are not interested.

I dont want to be rude to these guys..and I certainly dont mind talking with or socializing with these black guys...but I am simply not interested in them sexually because I am just not attracted to them...

How can I get this point across if I decide to try this place again..?? Any suggestions..

PLEASE NO POSTS TO ME THAT I AM A RACIST...THAT IS NONSENSE...IT IS SIMPLY A MATTER OF SEXUAL ATTRACTION OR LACK OF SEXUAL ATTRACTION...IT IS NOT RACISM...

Thanks...

[This message has been edited by Mamo Verga (edited February 01, 2001).]

No, you are not a racist because you find black men sexually unappealing. Different strokes for different folks as the saying goes. Men of color, because of past racial discrimination, might perceive your non-sexual interest as racially-motivated. That perception has a way of reinforcing sterotypes among men of color, so the rejection on the basis of sexual attraction becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy not related to equal treatment, fairness, and opportunity in other areas of their lives.

With respect to the management and staff at the Midtowne Spa, the aggressive and harassing environment at that facility exists because the management allows it to exist. When management tolerates such an environment, it does so for strictly business reasons...the money.

If management of Midtowne Spa condones harassment as you have related, it is pointless to return again to this facility. Why waste your time and money at a facility that doesn't suit your needs?

I would not say you are a racist. However, it does strike me as odd that one can be totally "not into" a whole race! Black guys come in all shapes, sizes, skin tones, ehtnicity, etc...
To reject them ALL based on race does seem a little, er, over-selective. And your protestations of how "they" get mad when you won't give in to them, well, it doesn't sound good.
In the interest of full disclosure, let me say that I wish to hell I lived there!

I just re-read your post. I dunno, since you're anonymous here, is there not something more to this? Using the phrase "these people" may not be racist but does have a connotation of lumping all of them together like a species or something. It almost sounds like you'd rather they not be there. And why would they not be there?

Shit man, just find a big, buff guy with a big cock and get it on. You never know, could open up a whole new world for you.

A racist holds the belief they are racially superior to others not of their own race. Sexual attraction is often stated as personal preference or how we make distinctions in our dealings with others. If you exclude an entire race of people in making those distinctions, stated as personal preference, the underlying belief of racial superiority comes into play or focus. I wouldn't worry about being called a racist if you arn't sexually atttracted to black men as a matter of personal preference. However, if the basis of your personal preferrence is rooted in a belief of racial superiority, you are indeed a racist.

Gimme a break. How many people actually view themselves as racist? The average racist, outside a sexual context, makes the same kind of argument: he just wants to associate with his own kind, he's got nothing against black people, just a preference for white companions.

Most of us are smart enough to see the racist undergirding of that argument. It's not any different in a sexual context. Just because you don't think your "preference" is racist doesn't mean it isn't an expression of broad cultural racism. By that I mean to say I don't think YOU are a racist in a personal sense but that you certainly are living out a particular form of the culture's racism.

Intersting that you fetishize Latinos. Many black men complain of the same experience with white men -- being fetishized. They regard this as another racist expression, since it usually involves stereotyping.

N2's advice is good. In the same way you address any other racial "preference," try actually becoming sexual with a black guy. You might find yourself wondering why you bothered to cling to your "preference" so long.

Sexual preference based on race or ethnicity is not racism unless there is an underlying belief of superiority. It might be politically incorrect to state your preference or sexual attraction on that basis alone, but it hardly qualifies you as a racist --- unless you have a belief in racial superiority. If we followed Bongo's thinking, we might make the same analogy about Gay males who are sexually attracted only to males as a gender class. I would not suggest Gay males are sexist because they are only sexually attracted to males as a gender class. However, you would be a sexist if you believed in gender superiority. Being gay does not mean we are sexist if we are only attracted to our own gender.

Hmmm ... interesting reading. Although I enjoy sexual relationships with anyone with the right attitude and right equipment, I have to confess to a decided and unqualified preference for Black men. Especially being oral with them. I don't know why this should be, and I'm not altogether sure that it developed conciously, but with the passage of time I'm able to step back and recognize it as a genuine preference, and was actually surprised when I first came to this realization.

Nevertheless, there it was, and I don't really spend a lot of time questioning it or analyzing it from a political perspective. Until now, that is ...

IrishRedHead
Cruiser posted February 03, 2001 11:30 AM

"Sexual preference based on race or ethnicity is not racism unless there is an underlying belief of superiority. It might be politically incorrect to state your preference or sexual attraction on that basis alone, but it hardly qualifies you as a racist --- unless you have a belief in racial superiority."

Gimme a break. I don't buy that argument anymore than the specious comparison of racial attraction to same-sex attraction. The two are not the same.

Sexual attraction is an undenuable orientation. It is not a preferance or choice. Racial selections in our sexual partners are most definately a choice based on preferances. You cannot compare the two without blurring out important distinctions.

Christ.

Verga, putting aside whether you're attracted to black men or not, you've definitely got some issues with race. How else to explain:
(a)your describing blacks as having "taken over" the place on weekends(kind of sounds like a sinister plot doesn't it?);
(b)that wonderful spot in your post where, after whining about blacks for a whole paragraph, you add "blacks" in parentheses just so we don't dare get confused and think that "these people" refers to anyone but those troublemaking negroes.

No, not being attracted to black men doesn't necessarily make you a racist. And no one likes overly aggressive cruisers. But you could have told us your whole sad story either without mentioning the race of your "tormentors," or mentioning it only in passing, seeing how as a non-racist (I know because you said so), race doesn't matter to you. But, alas, you managed to make race the focus of your rant about overly aggressive behavior. Seems to me that this tells the real story here.

[This message has been edited by AssMan (edited February 04, 2001).]

So true, Assman. It's the old "Now I'm not a racist, but I have noticed that blacks tend to...." in a sexual context.

Red, comparing sexual orientation, which involves gender, to race, which involves skin color, is quite a leap. The one speaks to sexual IDENTITY based on a foundational and usually immutable feature of attraction: genital sexuality. The other speaks to a feature of a partner, skin color, whose added meaning in this case is, except as "preference," a noticeably inarticulated argument for exclusion. And that is consistent with the dominant culture's general perspective toward black people. If you want to regard that as coincidence, be my guest.

Nobody has really argued with anyone's right to exert a preference or prejudice in this context. What we notice is the effort to sanitize "preference" of "prejudice," as if the former is by definition uninfluenced by the latter.

Personally, I think the problem of prejudice in this context is above all what it costs the prejudiced person.




[This message has been edited by bongo (edited February 04, 2001).]

You said it.

The overwhelming consensus is that you are born gay or predisposed to being gay due to genetic factors. While the nature versus nurture argument rages on, it seems doubtful that any majority of people would choose to be gay in a world where homophobia and fag bashings still exist. I would not call being gay a choice or a preference. It is an unshakable sexual orientation.

This other stuff -- who we like having sex with, Top or Bottom, etc. -- is all about choices and preferences. It is not the same thing as sexual orientation. It is influenced by environment, subjective experiences, prejudice, conditioning, and societal factors. Why try to white-wash it with denial or specious comparisons to sexual orientation?

Take responsibility for your choices. Acknowledge what you have no control over -- like being gay. You do have control over your sexual choices and your choice of partners.

If you don't like Black guys, there is a reason for it that has something to do with your perceptions of Black men. Period.

Thanks for your replies guys...even though only SunnDogg actually addressed my actual question.

I have been reading the replies over the past few days with interest. The largest point which comes out in these posts from everyone with the exception of SunnDogg is that in your opinion I am a racist because I dont want go get on my knees in front of a black guy. I dont understand the tendency on these
boards to find fault in questions but never answer the question asked....I intentionally asked that the question of racism not be addressed. I am not concerned with this. I am concerned with the focus of
my question. How to continue to go to this
place and have a good time with the individuals to whom I am attracted and who find me attractive...and politely reject those to whom I am not attracted. I often read posts on these boards and find certain people try to "over-intellectualize" the subject at hand. The replies to my post have proven to be no exception.

I know that the easiest was to handle this is
to simply give up this formerly fun cruising place and find another place. I could do this but I would rather continue to go to Midtown from time to time as there are still a few men there to whom I find myself attracted. The problem as I stated before is that there are some black guys at the Midtown Spa (baths) who will not take no for an answer. There are many black guys there who are polite and no problem. I am not interested in sex with them and many accept this with a polite, "Thanks, have a good evening", etc....but many like to follow me around and try to disrupt anything that I get into...These are the guys with whom I have a problem. I would also have a problem if this behavior were from a white, Latino or Asian guy as well. I dont appreciate this type of aggression behavior in any race.

I was at Midtown last friday evening and had a good time as I took a Latino man to my private room and we had fun for about two hours. I was there for about thirty minutes before this guy arrived. I would say in a very unscientific way that there were about sixty guys there...of these sixty about fifty were black, six Latinos and four white guys. I was approached several times by black and white guys. I only problem that night was one black guy who followed me around. He kept knocking on my door when I was in the room with the Latino....why? He should have found someone else....This is just an example. I fully expect someone..maybe Bongo...to say that I should have opened the door and had sex with him to satisfy his FETISHIZATION of white people. I completely disagree....I opened the door and asked him to go away and leave us alone. I finally had to tell him that I would get the management involved if he continued his behavior. At last another black guy saw what was happening and told the first one to leave me alone. At this time I think the "problem guy" left as I did not hear from his again (Thank God)..

I am 38 years old, dark blond hair and green eyes. I am 5'9" tall and my weight is 175 pounds. There is very little fat on my body and I am muscular and tone. I do work out usually four times each week. The reason I add this information is so I can explain that one of the reasons that I try to take very good care of my body is so that I will be attractive to guys that I find attractive. I do not take the time and spend the effort and money to make myself attractive and available to guys to whom I am not attracted just so they will be satisfied.

One of the replies noted that I used the
phrase "these people"...Well, it is "these
people" to whom I am referring. What is the
problem with this choice of words? There is
no problem. Perhaps I could have said "these guys" or "these invididuals"...whatever but
to people who hold the belief that any white people who does not want sex with a black guy is a problem, nothing would have been correct...I sometimes find it amusing that these politically correct people who seem to exist solely for the purpose of apologizing for "the past", post to every board in which they can cause some type of controversy. I think these guys would have me on my knees in front of every black guy in the place...then paying them the reparations some seem to want from the slave days. What a joke!

To the point for fetishes. I do prefer Latino men. I greatly enjoy them. I love the culture, music, language and of course,
the men. These is nothing in this world that I enjoy more than to travel to Spanish speaking countries (with the exception of Spain). This may be a fetish in the clinical sense of the word, but I certainly do not reject other white guys, Asians, Indians, etc. The reason I find it necessary to address this is because one of the posters said that "many blacks are fetishized by white guys". There is probably some truth to this, but there are also a large number of black guys who will only have sex with white guys. They want NOTHING to do with their own race. Are these guys also racists? Following some of the so-called "logic" from posts I have read, the only answer is YES...but with the double-standard with is alive and well with regards to race relations in American in these days....the white guy would be called the racist and the black guy....well, maybe he is only trying to get in touch with something....some excuse will be made to make the white guy the culprit and the black guy a victim....there is such non-sense going around these days...

Using the words "take over the place"...What
should I say...?? Five years ago on a Friday or Saturday night is was about 15% black. Now it is about 80% black. I could have used some large words to achieve the same meaning...but why..when what they have done is taken over the place. That is what has happened. I strongly view it is a negative development, no question about that... As the percentage of blacks has increased the percentage of white and other non-blacks has decreased largely because of the agressive behavior of some of the blacks..and the other people are going other places.

"Sad Story".....well, I have to agree that it is a sad story. In Dallas, Texas...which is run as a police state when a great cruising place is "lost" it is a sad story. I am so happy that you agree with me..(LOL)...

I would still like to know if anyone has any suggestions as to how to deal with agressive black guys in Midtown Spa. Please dont give me lines and lines of narrative about race relations and racism because I am not attracted to blacks. I do not find any problem with this. If anyone has any reasonable ways to say "NO" to these overly
agressive black guys, please let me know.

Thanks..

You said you tried saying no politely. Good. That's the logical first approach. Have you tried being rude? This is all some people respond to. Do you get a private room when you're there? That allows you to close the door on guys, which I know from experience helps to get the message across.

I hope this addresses your question to your satisfaction. I've already said my piece on what's being stated between the lines in your posts. Good luck.

Thank you AssMan for your reply which is logical and suggest steps which I already take.......and for your comment for "reading
between the lines"...it seems that you are reading something between the lines which
does not exist but I know that it is useless to tell you this as you already have your mind made up....

You know the old saying....I think it applies to you with regards to my original post...so
"I will not confuse you with the facts"....

Thanks again...

Always so interesting (& down right funny) to read these threads where the only crime committed has been "polyannas" sticking their eloquent noses into other people's business.
The whole question of Mamo Verga's post, dudes, is how to handle obnoxious morons in a gay cruising establishment! HELLO!!! If y'all quit trying to be the "Hardy Boys" of phsychology and just answer the poor man's question, the world would be a better place! Y'all are just as obnoxious as those trolls who can't take "no" for an answer.

Here's my answer, Mamo Verga: These people (whatever their race) don't "get it" in life. They've never been able to have proper social manners, never been able to respect other people's spaces, and have never been able to assimilate to the crowd around them. And ever since the '60's Flower Child movement (where we should accept all things and love our fellow man), these people have been able to get away with their social disgraces on the basis that the world should accept EVERYONE! Well, you know what, dudes???? Sometimes you just have to NOT love your fellow man & tell him to his face what a social misfit he is....whatever his race. And when they cry "foul! racism!"...it proves that they truly don't "get it" in life.

So, alas, you may have to give up your favorite bathhouse...for the time being. There's always something just around the corner for a gay man in Dallas. (Try Neiman Marcus);-) I know I'VE had to find a different cruising place ever now & then. But, ultimately, the crowds change, the morons are replaced by other morons, the studs are replaced by other studs. And life continues to be full of analytical bullsh....ers.

And that's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

You know...I think that RockHard and SunDogg
have some sense...They can answer a
question..

Thanks guys...I appreciate it....maybe
you are right and I must go someplace else for a while....anyway...its been fun...

Take care everyone...

You are so full of it Mama Vergo! You only seem to like it when guys agree with you...
you seem to think there is an arbiter of good taste who will only allow you to see the posts that you deem acceptable to your fragile sensibilities. You made this same bullshit case on another board. Maybe you could ask Keith to kindly delete the offending ads. And while he's at it, maybe give the owner of your favorite baths a call and have them stop letting so many pesky blacks in. Golly, how's a guy supposed to have a good time?!

Poor Mama Vergo, he has to put up with those pesky people who just scratch and claw to get at his perfect little torso! You know how to stop their behavior. Stop going. But no, you think you are entitled to getting "our" place back from all those black men.

You are the one who singled out blacks for special disapproval. Why do you expect everybody to just jump on your bandwagon?

If you didn't expect comments like this, you would have asked for "advice" in the Sex Advice section, not the sexual politics section.

Now, according to another cruiser's post, we should lump 60's flower children into the same undesirable sack of unwanted garbage as Black people. No political agenda or bias there, huh?

If I were the Sundogg guy or the Rockhard cruiser, I certainly would not consider praise from anyone who makes such statements anything to be proud of in the least.

Christ.

LOL.....why is it that some people, namely
the last two posters, just never seem to "get it"...???

My original question was one of both advise and also politcal in a sense....The reason
I placed it here...which should be clear to anyone with enough logic to consider it...is because this is where the LA Asian question was located.

As far as Pesky.....this is an understatement. The ones to whom I am referring are not pesky...they are aggressive, pushy, insulting...they obstruct
the halls and put their hands on people who do not welcome it..and when you ask them to
stop suddenly the "racist" term is used...I
guess they believe that since I dont want sex with them and especially not when it is almost a "forced" situation...that I am a racist. This is nonsense.

I should not have to stop going to this place. I should be able to go there and have a good time with the person of my choice. Everyone else should be able to do the same thing....as long as the person of choice is willing.......I AM NOT WILLING...

This has gone far enough. No one with the exception of the two intelligent individuals have decided to address the issue at hand...and this has again proven to be a session of a group apologizing for rude behavior on the part of these black guys....


So many people on here....everyone in fact except for TWO people...failed to address the question at hand and instead decided to discuss racial issues. This issue is much more than race. It is a question of a huge
double-standard.

"This has gone far enough. No one with the exception of the two intelligent individuals have decided to address the issue at hand..."

What would that issue be? Rudeness? Racism? Your right to go where you want without having to deal with those undesirable others?

Did you ever stop to think that there might be other people out there who feel the same about you cruising as you feel about being bothered by those "pesky" Black guys?

My point? People here are addressing the issues. They are offering different perspectives on this topic. You have made it clear that, in your opinion, certain viewpoints don't hold any value with your own way of thinking. I get this loud and clear. Maybe others do as well.

Do you "get it?"

Jake.....You really are getting to the point were your posts are laughable....

"What would that issue be? Rudeness? Racism? Your right to go where you want without having to deal with those undesirable others?

Did you ever stop to think that there might be other people out there who feel the same about you cruising as you feel about being bothered by those "pesky" Black guys?"

This quote is from your last post....

It again shows that you just don't seem
to understand the subject at hand.

I did not use the term Pesky....someone else
introduced that term into the conversation. I would never have used so mild a term to apply to the people that I have mentioned. As I have said time and time again the "problem guys" are a small minority of the blacks at Midtown Spa.....maybe 10%....but they are
not pesky...they are a nuisance. There are also some white guys and Latino guys who have behavior that can be a nuisance as well...but they will usually leave me alone when I ask once or twice. The black guys in question will never leave me alone...and they do the same thing to other white and Latino guys there.....Now, what do YOU fail to understand.

These guys will not have sex with one another.....and the dont seem to get much from the white/Latino guys either...but they are there to ruin any fun that the other guys can have....they are content to be a nuisance...and again before you get on your high-horse....I am not making a statement about all the black guys....Many of them are very polite and I enjoy having a conversation with them...I am referring to a small minority, maybe 10% of the group, who are nothing but trouble-makers...

You seem to think that I am a racist which is
totally off the mark because I don't like to have by cock grabbed after I have told someone that I am not interested. I dont like to have the hall blocked so some guy that I have turned down can try to kiss me...I dont like to have some guy that I have refused to knock on my door every three minutes while I am enjoying myself with some other person. I dont like being pushed against the wall by a person that I find undesirable.......Do you get the point. These are things that have happened to me...so I have avoided this place...and have
tried very very hard to be as polite as possible to the people in question.

I plan to go again soon...and I will tell them to get the hell out of my way....and the knee will also work.......and this has nothing to do with race other than the fact that the offenders in this situation happen to be black.

I am not scared of any problems...I can take care of myself.....and I have had offers many times I was there from other guys....white, Latino and black....to help me deal with the nuisance guys if I wanted or needed the help...so you should be able to understand that the other black guys there do not appreciate their behavior (that of the troublemakers) either.

I understand that you will reply with a note which will be an excuse for their behavior...I expect that....There are a lot
of white guys out there who make excuses for
unacceptable behavior on the part of black guys. You would NEVER accept this type of behavior from white guys...but you seem to have a double standard...as I said before...the double standard is alive and well in 21th century America and seems to be
growing stronger everyday.

I will agree with you on one point. There are guys that I have been interested in and they were not interested in me. It happens frm time to time...but not often as I usually like Latino men and most of them seem to like me. When I approach a man and he is not interested in me...my reply...."thanks, have a good evening"...and I leave him alone..PERIOD....I dont follow him around...I dont interfere with his activities with other guys...I dont block his room..or keep him from getting down the hall.

Hopefully now you will understand.

My question has been answered.....I have
received several email messages from men who
can understand the confusion that several of you seem to have about this matter....since this is not acutally a matter of race..but a matter of bad manners..and unacceptable behavior......I have my answer and I know how to deal with this from now own.....and I will not allow these guys....to get in my way anymore...

I thank everyone who has emailed me with suggestions as to how to deal with this...without having to give up a place that "can" be fun....and has a lot of potential...

Take care.

"Jake.....You really are getting to the point were your posts are laughable....
I did not use the term Pesky....someone else
introduced that term into the conversation. I would never have used so mild a term to apply to the people that I have mentioned. As I have said time and time again the 'problem guys' are a small minority of the blacks at Midtown Spa.....maybe 10%....but they are
not pesky...they are a nuisance. There are also some white guys and Latino guys who have behavior that can be a nuisance as well...but they will usually leave me alone when I ask once or twice. The black guys in question will never leave me alone...and they do the same thing to other white and Latino guys there.....Now, what do YOU fail to understand."

Nothing. Thanks for clarifying things. LOL!!!

Thank god he doesn't "over-analyze" this issue. Yes, I think I understand fully too.

We only think that we understand, Bongo. Remember, according to Mamo, only SunDogg, RockHard, and he are enlightened enough to fully appreciate the real issues involved here.

The rest of us don't count -- kinda like the Black guys who get in his way of having a good time.

Posted by RockHard:
"Here's my answer, Mamo Verga: These people (whatever their race) don't 'get it' in life. They've never been able to have proper social manners, never been able to respect other people's spaces, and have never been able to assimilate to the crowd around them. And ever since the '60's Flower Child movement (where we should accept all things and love our fellow man), these people have been able to get away with their social disgraces on the basis that the world should accept EVERYONE! Well, you know what, dudes???? Sometimes you just have to NOT love your fellow man & tell him to his face what a social misfit he is....whatever his race."

In following your own advice, I am telling you to your face what a social moron you and others like you are, Rockhard. Being the enlightened individual that you claim to be, I am sure that you will be able to accept this without crying "foul," "racism," or over-analyzing the issue.

[This message has been edited by Jake2001 (edited February 10, 2001).]

Let me see if I can make some sense out of this discussion: We're talking about sexual attraction as it relates to skin color and ethnicity. But we also seem to have other variables at work as well: Aggressive and overly ambitious black guy at a men's spa won't take "no" for an answer from this white guy who's already scoring with his Latino trick. White guy is pissed that black guy doesn't have the courtesy to politely leave him alone. Second black guy intervenes to tell the first black guy to get the fuck off. White guy also notices an unusually high number of African-American customers at the spa on the weekends and would like to know why. White guy tells us that he's not racist, he just has a sexual and romantic preference for other white men, Native Americans and Latino guys...his dick does not throb for African-American men. He also says that he has no problem with black guys as friends (not sexually), neighbors and at work because he's not racist. He points out that there are many blacks who are not sexually attracted to other blacks...and some whites who aren't into other white guys. He feels unfairly targeted because of his preferences....

And you know what, he's absolutely right! His attraction is the by-product of a society still not at terms with the beauty and erotic qualities of the African male (this includes African-American guys). When I say "African," Middle Eastern and Mediterranean guys (such as the lighter-skinned Egyptians, Saudi Arabians, Libyians or similar men) are not included here because they closely resemble their European/Asian brothers. When I talk about the "African" it's the one that you can truly see: Eyes, nose, hair, skin tones and other distinct features. For way too long our "whitewashed" American society has considered such African features as unappealing and less than erotic...there's much work to be done in changing this European-Asian mindset which had taken over our society for more than 300 years! We can't blame this white man for his "preferences," we should place the blame on our society, which has fostered an environment of racial separation and inequality for so long! Until we all live in a truly diverse society, where racial and ethnic differences are seen as equally beautiful and sexual, we will always be reminded that sexual and romantic attractions based on race and ethnicity are an unfortunate fact of life. Whether anyone agrees with me or not, true love and true sexual attraction knows no skin color or nationality.... It can be unlearned, which is a far different horse from sexual orientation! http://web.cruisingforsex.com/ubb/wink.gif

[This message has been edited by blackguy469 (edited February 17, 2001).]

Posted by BlackGuy:
"Until we all live in a truly diverse society, where racial and ethnic differences are seen as equally beautiful and sexual, we will always be reminded that sexual and romantic attractions based on race and ethnicity are an unfortunate fact of life."

I think you nailed it.

BlackGuy469: I agree with most of what you're saying but you make a great error in lumping white guys and Asians together. We don't look alike or share the same culture or necessarily have the same tastes in men. If you want to see proof of the kind of mean-spiritedness, ignorance and downright vitriol directed at Asian gays, search back for a thread on why Asians should be banned from sex clubs in LA. Pretty eye-opening and sad stuff.

Posted by sandog:
"...but you make a great error in lumping white guys and Asians together. We don't look alike or share the same culture or necessarily have the same tastes in men. If you want to see proof of the kind of mean-spiritedness, ignorance and downright vitriol directed at Asian gays, search back for a thread on why Asians should be banned from sex clubs in LA. Pretty eye-opening and sad stuff."

Yep. These threads are bringing up a lot of what constitutes the arguably justifiable hostility that other oppressed groups feel towards White gay men. There are many Black people (straight and gay), Asians (straight and gay), women, and others who strongly resent when White gay men compare their experience of perceived oppression to other non-White/non-male groups. The comments made against Blacks and Asians in these threads gets to the core of a lot of the issue.

White men, gay or straight, lead comparatively privileged lives than others in America. Take a look at the entitlement that screams out of the comments made against Blacks or Asians who are described as invading and disrupting formerly White (mostly) gay cruising environments. I suspect that the people doing the complaining about the non-White cruisers may not even be aware of how they sound to others.

This is what comes from being a member of a sexually oppressed culture (gays) while enjoying the benefits of being part of the dominant culture in America (White men).

White gay men do suffer oppresson. But, their experience does not compare to that of say a Black gay man, or an Asian gay man, or even a Black lesbian. There are differences in culture and experience that need to be appreciated and acknowledged.

Dismissing all of this with a "preference" expanation fails to deal with anything effectively.