Advisory.
 

-- Chatting with a farang, (he's lived here for a couple of decades and is enviably fluent in spoken & written Thai.), he opined that this web-site was amongst the worst things to have happened to The Kingdom's gay scene.
- Allegedly he has a large circle of acquaintances through the whole gamut of Thai society: some scholastic, others business and a good few with reaches into various gov't. dep'ts.?
- "Why?", I queried.
- 'Because it's so explicit with places, names and suchlike.', he replied. For good measure he added that BKK's. Finest are avid, but anonymous, readers.
- Should the above be true then possible we posters should avoid mentioning names, boyz' nos. and other pers. & identifying features except by requested PM.?
-- E&OE. --

The fluent and well-connected one should check out the Thai language gay sites.Cruising for sex is very tame and I doubt very influential.

A raid/arrest caused by a lead from here ? My paranoia scale reaches 0.

Only opining and alleging though.

I mentioned to a certain Thai individual in a retail/bar/sauna establishment or suchlike that I would put the details of his service/s on the web. 'Oh no' he cried. 'Not there please....' 'OK OK. I won't no problem...' This said I think Kuhn Sextile has a point.

While I think the bulk of what we put up is readily available to most anyway in other ways I think it wise not identify individs as Khun Sxtl says. This I will do and put (PM) beside details so you and the BIB will have to email me to get the info!! Ha haa

The quantity and detail of information posted here is just a speck compared to what appears on Thai boards like Palm Plaza and TMM.

There is nothing here that doesn't appear in the vernacular on those sites...times about a thousand.

Sextile, your friend may be well-intentioned, but he has certainly not thought things through very well. Either that, or he is unaware of what kind of stuff is posted on Thai language boards.

I am happy to be less explicit and bow to the experience of Thai nationals in this regard. I very much have my "L" plate on when it comes to Thai culture and would not want to put such a beautiful people at risk. Thank you for the advice.

-- Not being all that good at reading Thai I am prepared to acknowlege and to accept your superiority in this matter and subsequent judgement.
- A possibly ignoble thought did course through my mind which is that concerned Authorities conceivably might look-at native sites MORE leniently than farang sites, were push to come to shove? (After all - from time to time - we do see pictures of non-native paedophiles in the media, yet I don't recall seeing pictures of any non-farang paedos.],.

Lots of factors at play.

First, most of the farang pedos are done in not because of the Thai police, but because of the foreign police units and NGO's that are specifically out there looking for them in places like you-know-where.

Second, cases of Thai diddling aren't usually considered newsworthy as far as the English-language press is concerned -- though there are sometimes reported when it involves a teacher or other person in authority or with a high profile. I can recall five or six cases from the past couple years.

Third, Thai pedophiles are much, much smarter and more discrete than their foreign counterparts. They would not be seen dead anywhere near a bar full of kids in their underwear, (much less take one out of one), and generally blend into the scenery much better.

As for the Thai police, I really don't think they care one way or another until someone complains -- like a foreign police unit, NGO, or the kid's parents. Or, until they are looking to make a buck (and in which case a farang is obviously a good target).

As for plain old cruisers, I think it's pretty unbelievable that police would care enough to monitor a foreign language website. They don't need us to tell them where cruising occurs. Some of the places we talk about (like the theaters and the parks) have been cruising places for decades and decades. Others (like the department stores) are no secret, either. The shop owners know what's going on, the guard and cleaning companies know what's going on, and the mall owners know what's going on.

Believe me, there are no secrets that a bunch of farangs are going to tell the Thai police on a web board.

-- Thank you for your reasoned reply.
- Doubtless I'll be seeing my farang acquaintance within the next few days and I shall be pleased to put your replies to him and shall attend to his reactions and replies.

I can see the headline now "After CFS lead police raid obscure massage parlour for giving dreary service"

Information
 

There's another point to add.

I've heard many times that local undercover police are everywhere in patpong and all the similar locations, and they regularly chat up the working girls and boys:

- To keep themselves regularly infomed about what shows are taking place, illegal workers, etc., etc.
- To get information about reported incidents, problems, etc.

For sure, they know EXACTLY what is happening in every single bar in Patong, every day of the week.

Of course, the police don't need to monitor this website to see what's happening in the gay bars. They just ask when they go by to pick up their monthly tea money. Or they ask the moto drivers....

And this polyglot with influential friends in high places chats with them about gay websites devoted to "cruising for sex" and about what bottom-rung police officers are up to?

If you tour the bar beers on Walking Street late at night you'll find a whole lot of people claiming to have important friends with similar inside track information on what's going on in government circles & what the current police tactics are. The drunker it gets, the easier it will be to find them.

High status get to be that by being discreet and also discerning about who to be friend.

In Bangkok many on scene suffer from relevance deprive syndrome.Take with grain of salt what you hear at Dick's.

In any country you need to make some decisions on what to believe and what is simply bullshit and some attempt at looking important etc. And let's be honest this country seems to attract a fair share of these types.

Been here more than 20 years, I've overheard many conversations at Dicks, and many other venues (let's not suggest this is confined to Dicks) which are just total fantasy, total bullshit, total invention, just ridiculous.

I was recently at Panorama and overheard a farang saying that Essan now has a policy to breed bar boys. Same farang also saying that there is a policy/process which ensures that every family from Essan has at least one boy or girl working in Pattaya in the sex trade.

I have an acquaitance from Australia (retired government clerical worker, been coming here for one week holiday every three years for perhaps 20 years, now about 70 years old). Back in Melbourne he tells his friends:

- That he contacts his senior police friend in advance who organises new boys to be available in at least 3 venues in both Bkk and Pattaya.

- That he has a secret police body guard which follows him 24 hours a day.

- That the body guard ensures that he doesn't come in contact with his previous conquests because there is a danger they might commit suicide if they know he's been to Thailand without contacting them.

- That he's so well known, boys desire him so much that when he visits boys insist on sleeping with him free, and often buy him dinner.

I can also recall an English language school which had to quickly get rid of one young farang who was sent out to teach at various company premises and was telling the HR staff and the students that a secret 'hot line' had been installed to his apartment so that the PM (toxin era) could ring him at any time for advice.

Can you imagine toxin asking a farang for advice about anything? Let alone a 'hot-line'....

In reality you could count on less than one hand the total number of farang who have regular discussion with hi-so thais, senior people in the police, the beaurocracy, etc.

None of these people are remotely interested in what farang think, advice from farang, etc.

In any country you need to make some decisions on what to believe and what is simply bullshit and some attempt at looking important etc. And let's be honest this country seems to attract a fair share of these types.

Been here more than 20 years, I've overheard many conversations at Dicks, and many other venues (let's not suggest this is confined to Dicks) which are just total fantasy, total bullshit, total invention, just ridiculous.

I was recently at Panorama and overheard a farang saying that Essan now has a policy to breed bar boys. Same farang also saying that there is a policy/process which ensures that every family from Essan has at least one boy or girl working in Pattaya in the sex trade.

I have an acquaitance from Australia (retired government clerical worker, been coming here for one week holiday every three years for perhaps 20 years, now about 70 years old). Back in Melbourne he tells his friends:

- That he contacts his senior police friend in advance who organises new boys to be available in at least 3 venues in both Bkk and Pattaya.

- That he has a secret police body guard which follows him 24 hours a day.

- That the body guard ensures that he doesn't come in contact with his previous conquests because there is a danger they might commit suicide if they know he's been to Thailand without contacting them.

- That he's so well known, boys desire him so much that when he visits boys insist on sleeping with him free, and often buy him dinner.

I can also recall an English language school which had to quickly get rid of one young farang who was sent out to teach at various company premises and was telling the HR staff and the students that a secret 'hot line' had been installed to his apartment so that the PM (toxin era) could ring him at any time for advice.

Can you imagine toxin asking a farang for advice about anything? Let alone a 'hot-line'....

In reality you could count on less than one hand the total number of farang who have regular discussion with hi-so thais, senior people in the police, the beaurocracy, etc.

None of these people are remotely interested in what farang think, advice from farang, etc.

QUOTE from ICON: "....Third, Thai pedophiles are much, much smarter and more discrete than their foreign counterparts. They would not be seen dead anywhere near a bar full of kids in their underwear, (much less take one out of one), and generally blend into the scenery much better. ...."

Agree, my understanding is that there are numerous local 'processes' whereby locals can easily acquire the youngsters they want, and in many locations, and the cost is extremely small compared.

There's another angle. I've mentioned before my Thai friend who published a Thai gay magazine. He's mentioned many times the annoyance to Thai gay men in regard to the cost of the 'mainstream' gay venues (Patpong, Pattaya, Phuket, CM, etc.) He says local Thais believe that the farang factor has pushed costs (drinks, off fees, tip expectations) way way beyond the means of the average local gay.

Perhaps 10 years ago he took me to a small shopfront in the depths of Suttisan, not on the main raod, down several sois of slums, no fairy lights outside, no signs, nothing to advertise what the place was. Inside there were perhaps 20 boys, all fully dressed, I guess half over 18, half under 18 and some probably only 12 years old.

We didn't stay long because I was uneasy about the whole thing and because he was asked quickly and bluntly by one then several Thai customers why he had brought a farang.

He also mentioned that there were many places where very underage street kids were 'living', and these places were freqented by locals looking for kids.

Further, perhaps 12 or 14 years ago there was several go-go venues on Phayonyothin road, just past the big Thai farmers Bank tower, mostly frequented by Thai customers. Amonst these (down one of the sois) was a place called Paradise (closed maybe 10 years ago, when I understand the sleazy Thai owner died from Aids). Street level - of age go-go boys. Upstairs a troop of very underage boys, all nude, who the owner continuously fawned over, fondled, kissed, etc. I went to this venue (down stairs) several times then one evening the owner said "come upstairs", which I did with a farang friend. There were perhaps 10 other customers, all Thai and some customers quite young (perhaps mid 20's). We fled very quickly and never returned.

Titanic was a similar place, perhaps even with the same owner. Thankfully, long out of business.

Many massage and bar worker don't use real name anyway.
Historic Bangkok sounds dark and intriguing.Anything goes period.
Interesting Scoops post.

Dear Koreana,

Yes, Bangkok of yesteryear was very sleazy and almost out of control. Some aspects of the go-go bars is still the same: soap shows, candle shows, etc.

My first visit to the bars was nearly 30 years ago, in those days most of the go-go bars were in the Balcony/Telephone bar soi, including one place (can't remember the name) which probably had 200 to 250 boys dancing every night, continuous sex shows all over the venue, all night. A few go-go bars in Soi Saladaeng, a couple in what's now the DJ station soi, most noteable was Harry's Bar, for a decade or more a cruising bar with many many hot money boys who wrote the book on how to entice 'shopping' etc. Much later it became a go-go bar for a few years then disappeared. Only one go-go bar on Suriwonge which was Twilight in it's first location, it was also a very sleazy venue with lot's of nude shows, and I guess this place started organized big cock/erection shows. Super A was already open but in it's original downstairs location (downstairs from where it is now), this was a real sleaze joint, many very young boys, every night you could see numerous farang sucking nude young boys, and a place where you needed to watch your watch and wallet like a hawk. One sauna off Sukumvit (just past Soi Nana) had many hot young men on staff and you could select one or a few boys for a small tip to do go-go, or to go to a room. Stockholm bar was near the corner of Soi Chidlom and Ploenchit, here you could select 2 boys to go to a private room to do a fuck show, most boys hovering around 18 years old, but must have been quite a few who hadn't yet turned 18. Perhaps 5 or 6 go-go bars already opened in Supan Kwai area, mostly above age, mostly Thai customers (this was perhaps 15 years before the famous/infamous Apache bar). A couple of go-go bars located way down Sukhumvit including own venue which always had very pleasant young men (above age) opposite the side of the Ekamai bus station. A few years later Tawan opened in it's first location on Suriwongse, opposite Tawana Ramada hotel and it's 'stock' was all very young smaller boys (probably 18 plus 1 day) where they danced fully nude but always with one hand over their plumbing, no bigger/muscle boys at all, that came later when the owner (same owner as today) totally changed the format.

The big go-go bar next to Rome Club was Apollo. Ah, the memories.

Thanks ICON, yes it was Apollo bar, I always have a mental block with that name.

Perhaps could also mention 30 years ago Pattaya had the famous Homex Inn, way down in Nth Pattaya, small 2 star hotel with go-go boys in the evening and during the day the go-go boys and others hung around the hotel swimming pool, often in tight skimpy briefs which was very daring for Thais (still is). Always lots of very cute mostly macho boys, above age, and the venue didn't ask for any fee for taking their boys to hotel rooms during the day. If I remember rightly the off fee, at night time, was 50Baht. In those days it was normal for boys to pretty much always stay the night. Expected tip was usually 300Baht and 500Baht if there was penetration.


ICON, do you recall this venue?

Yes, I recall it. But I never went there.