Hero Massage: Report and Question
 

Went to Hero Massage on a weekday afternoon. Found it as welcoming as described on various forums: two English-speaking proprietors who put me at ease; clean and comfortable place; fixed prices at 600 Baht for the house and 1000 tip for the boy; had a drink while viewing the boys behind the glassed pane. There were about thirty of them, most of which surprisingly did next to nothing to attract customers. I asked who was really gay, and the owner told three boys to stand; then asked who has a big cock, and again three were made to stand up. Unfortunately there was no overlap between the two threesomes, so I opted for one of the latter group.

The room was spacious, with a good shower and a wide massage bed. We showered together before and after, and the massage plus the extra were between ok and good. Which brings me to my question:

The boy (who really had a big cock which I enjoyed) wouldn't suck me without a condom. When I later asked one of the owners about it, he confirmed that that's the way it is. Is this really so in Hero? At other Bangkok venues? Do they really think this is necessary to avoid AIDS?

It is up to the boy, as it should be. Everyone has the right to set their own limits as far as safe sex goes.
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Agree with Icon.Hero generally will present guys who don't oral with rubber but it sometimes occurs.A few at various venues including Hero may rim.One time at Hero a masseur was placing a condom on and I thought he was going to smoke.Turns out it was his style of preparing to sit on and ride.

Being smoked with condom has no feeling for me and I have respectfully abandoned the exercise and settled for erotic massaging/hand job of my cock.
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Totally agree with ICON, in fact If I came across a venue that instructed their working staff they had to smoke WITHOUT A condom then I would not patronize that venue.

Every working man has the absolute right to protect his health and to insist on a condom. If the working man doesn't insist on a condom to smoke the customer so be it.

If the working man said he was willing to be penetrated without a condom then I would not take up his offer and would also not engage in smoking the young man, etc.

Do you really think venue owners / captains / mamasans, and probably 99.9% of the working boys are fully knowledgeable about how you can / cannot catch AIDS?

And there's other STDs as well as AIDS.

There was in fact an article recently in the Bangkok newspapers about a rise in the incidence of ghonorea (sorry about the spelling).

yes, an eye opening experience is to attend the Anonymous clinic or HIVNAT and see guys from the venues in Silom receiving treatment for HIV. These days the medicine does not produce the gaunt look of a decade ago so the % of virus carriers is not apparent. Obviously visiting those places would be intrusive, but statistics alone should prompt everyone to adhere to safe sex.

What is pathetic is there are farangs who will only fuck a Thai without a condom. I've heard stories about this. I feel sorry for the Thai who is faced with this.

I have no problem about oral sex without condoms. Despite the cautions out there, HIV is spread through anal sex, and I've even been told when getting tested that oral sex does not spread it. I know everyone will say, "Well, what about cuts in the mouth, etc." But again, I was told by someone very knowledgeable and experienced in the AIDS testing area that oral sex is basically zero risk. And I believe it's also the one getting passive receiving anal who gets infected (but then how would the top have been infected to begin with?).

I would never even consider anal sex without a condom.

If they insist on using a condom to smoke someone, then I think the customer has every right to refuse to pay, or request someone else, or walk out.

And then they have every right to kick your ass. Seriously, I'm having trouble believing this isn't a wind-up post.
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I would pay for the massage itself, but if they were expecting a tip for some promise of sex, I wouldn't do it. I've never had a massage except at Wat Pho, or in my hotel room from a lover staying over. But if I was treated like some kind of diseased farang by a massage boy, it would be a total turnoff. I'm happy I've never been drawn into the massage world. And I know your snide response--"And they're glad never to have seen you."

By the way, what's a wind-up post?

Please do yourself a favor and do NOT visit any of the gay massage parlors in Thailand.

It could be very bad for your health -- you could seriously end up with a split skull from a broken beer bottle.

I'm being very serious here.

Judging by the tone of some recent posts, CFS Thailand is in danger of turning into Sawatdee Gay Thailand so I will try to counter this negative energy by saying, quite unequivocally, that I love you all. ;)

I know a boy (long time) who caught HIV by giving a BJ to a customer though a dentist had extracted a tooth which caused a deep, open wound. I had warned him and even provided some money in order to allow him to stop working for a few days. Even the dentist had warned him,but....

Wantasian wrote "But if I was treated like some kind of diseased farang by a massage boy, it would be a total turnoff."
Looks like YOU are diseased, at least mentally, as your posts show.

No name calling please. Keep this civilized.

Thanks,
Keith

I'm just amazed at all the unprotected fucking that goes on in saunas (including in the U.S.--but especially in Bangkok). I wonder if some of these people know they're already infected and don't care. But I think it's really just weird gay mentality. Another thing that amazes me is guys who insist on having sex in parks, restrooms, etc. and then they get busted by the police. I have connected in parks, restrooms, and begged the other guy to please go with me somewhere else, and they absolutely won't. It's like they absolutely have to have risky sex.

some people think going with some stranger to an undetermined place is a bait for a mugging or a hold up.

I don't think that I was being uncivilized when I replied to wantasians post that " it looks like you are mentally diseased", if one were to by the tone and style of his posts. However, as the Cruisemaster, you may delete what you think is offensive. Only do not be partisan, condoning some people selectively.

Everyone, including working guys, has the right to determine what level of risk they are comfortable with in any sexual encounter. A person's decision with respect to what he finds necessary to protect himself should ALWAYS be respected.

A massage guy has the absolute right to protect his health by asking a customer to wear a condom before engaging in oral sex. How dare a customer complain about it. It just blows my mind.

The whole idea that "you are a whore, so you should blow me bareback because that's what I'm paying for" is disgusting and shameful. Some people just don't respect others at all.

Awful lot of people getting upset over this and I don't see why.
Of course it is up to each individual to determine what he considers safe.

It is also up to the customer if he wishes to engage in oral sex with a Condom. If he does not it is his right to just have the massage and tip accordingly.

I don't expect the masseur to tell me what kind of Sex I want and I don't expect to tell the masseur to do something he does not want to do. If I get a straight masseur and he doesn't want to Bottom, I don't expect him to tell me he wants to Top so he gets tipped for sex.

We agree their is no sex and his tip is based on strictly a massage.

Many times I have picked someone that was not really interested in Sex but just a HJ. I am not the least bit interested in a Hand Job so I tip a fair amount for the massage and their is no SEX.

My choice just like the Masseur makes his choice!!!!

Bottom line is that there should be NO expectation of ANYONE to do ANYTHING in particular unless it is AGREED IN ADVANCE.

If having a bareback bj is important to you, you must establish in advance that the masseur is prepared to do that.

If it is not established in advance, the masseur will not appreciate your cutting his tip because you expected him to do something he was not prepared to do and didn't promise to do.

Just because a guy works in a massage parlor or a bar does NOT mean he is going to be prepared to do anything and everything you want. He is not your sex slave for the cost of an off or massage.

I could not agree more.

Nobody is talking about sex slavery. I'm actually a very nice guy. But I've had a few non-massage encounters where a guy will say, "oh, yea, I do that" and then they don't really do it. I proceed to pay what I said I would, but I hate it afterward, and don't ever go with that guy again. Maybe that's the reason I jumped in here on this condom issue. I'll bet if it actually happened to the posters who are so outraged by my comments, they might be a little steamed afterward, too. It's the whole context of how it happens that can really turn someone off. If almost everyone gives head without a condom (I've almost never had anyone do the condom routine), what are we supposed to do?--Ask everyone the follow-up question, "And no condom, right?" And I agree that the hand-job thing is a total turn-off, too.

Your reply is ridiculous. First of all many and my self included sometimes just want a good massage by a handsome boy. There is no reason to ask what he does or even any reason to believe what he says he will or will not do.

I tip one amount for massage only and the tip goes up if i ask and receive or accept sexual favors. And that tip will vary with just how good the sex was. My decision not yours or his or the mamasans.

Now I have never had anyone get mad at the tip so I guess it works for me.

And by the way this thread has gotten nasty over something so ridiculous as using a condom for a blow job.

I would be surprised if that happens 1% of the time anywhere in Thailand Lady or Boy.

If he PROMISED to suck you bareback and he DIDN'T, you have a case.

If he made NO SUCH PROMISE, and you simply expected he would, you were way out of line.

I don't even take it for granted that a massage boy will suck me at all -- condom or no condom -- unless I specifically ask in advance.

There was a lovely masseur at the Ambassador Hotel Fitness Centre with whom I enjoyed many an erotic hour. For over a period of a few months, on a weekly basis, I tried to gently coax him to suck my cock. It was always a playful coaxing. He always laughed but never did it. One day, after having been acquainted for about six months, he decided, without request, that he would lick my shaft. Progress! I complimented him effusively on his shaft licking skills. A few weeks later, he included the head of my cock into his licking regime - but was careful not to take all of my manhood into his mouth. Again, excited compliments from me for an excellent and very เสียว experience. You can see where this is going. It's now been a year since we first met. Last week I had him over to my apartment for a light supper and then an hour of fun. Forget the massage. At one stage he was standing over me as I had my tongue buried deep inside his gorgeous, straight manhole. A little later, he was naked on all fours in front of me giving me (with gusto) one of the best blow jobs I have ever had. An hour or so after that he was back with his girlfriend.

Sometimes things worth waiting for take time and gentle encouragement. If a massage guy wanted to use a condom on me I would not have a problem. But I would consider it a personal challenge to see what I could do on future meetings using my charm and good humor. Be respectful, fun, and most of all just enjoy your masseur's company. If he is a keeper, and you understand how Thai people tick, with a bit of patience and encouragement you'll soon have him on his knees going at it like pig in a tatty.

I've made a quick look-see through some of search-engine Google's replies to 'HIV. - risk from oral sex.';
- Even approx. figures seem to be largely conjectural, but the risk percentage would appear to lie between 0.04.-0.07.%.;
- So, yes, there appears to be a fairly LOW level risk - but people should have the right to request the protection they deem necessary for the event.

That's 4 to 7 people in 10,000 !

Since I'm the one who started this thread, I'd like to clarify three points:
1) I neither complained nor criticized the boy or the owner, since sex wasn't discussed beforehand.
2) Sex wasn't discussed because I knew that sex is assumed, and that the major part of the minimum 1000 baht tip in Hero is for the sex.
3) I also didn't raise the question of smoking-without-condom, because it didn't cross my mind. By now I've been with rentboys in circa ten countries, and NO ONE has ever told me that he sucks only with condoms.
You live and learn...

I've noticed that--some of the best sucking I've ever gotten has been from straight and bi (but very masculine) guys. Masculine are the best.

In my early visits to Bangkok, I had one or two guys who would only give me a bj with me wearing a condom and I declined, gave them a minimum tip and departed. In retrospect I think these guys were either straight or were just not into me, either way I guess if someone is not keen on you then they probably won't want to risk catching something however unlikely that might be. In all other subsequent cases though, and there have been countless, no condom was requested. I find that if the guy is really into you there is no stopping what they might let you do, and so the risk is all yours. The prior clinical analysis of what may or may not happen is a complete turnoff for me. In my experience it has been best to go with the flow, always respecting the other person's right to refuse which they never seem to do these days anyway.

Just one point from this discussion. I have been to Thailand many times in the past 10 years and love the massage venues. Of the countless guys I have had in the massage venues in Bangkok and Pattaya there is only one that I would say with certainty was gay. I remember a venue in Pattaya where the boys and customers shared the same change area and I noticed that all the boys had photos of naked women on the inside door of their lockers, no doubt as a constant reminder to themselves of their true nature.

I totally agree. What if you wanted to fuck a guy who was not a bottom? Would you insist? These guys are probably not choosing sex work, but do it because they have so few options. Stop being colonialist, privileged pigs and treat them with at least some respect. (and I am not name calling here)

Masseurs' true nature ...
 

-- Sydneyboy,
- That part of yr. posting above reminded me of the few times that I visited K-WHY MASSAGE PARLOR - Rama IV. rd.; similarly there was a common changing area in wch. many of the masseurs' lockers had pictures of women on the doors' insides.

-- In PATTAYA, TOM YUM A GO-GO BAR - Sunnee plaza, I noticed just how many times the young men called-upon to achieve erections, and possibly more, used to look-at ortho-sexual porn. downloads on their cell-'phones. for assistance. Possibly the same in other such bars?
-- :)

its just again repeating that old discussion, but nonetheless
@1. you ASK and discuss this with reception before you choose.
@2. barely half true. This job-if they find they can ''do it'' is easy pay for what many hardly think of as ''work''. Some of the more popular Thai mass. shops (like hero too) have waiting lists for boys wanting to work there. or they divide it up so anyone can work but not full time. Also quite popular among students as extra cash. Again: this applies to the massageshops that offer more. Just had a guy from Laos-a farmers bumpkin, unable to speak much of proper Thai, just 2 month in BKK and lured into with the views of easy s.x and easy money- but what a great body, style and caring for. Now he has saved enough to go explore the delights of BKK-silom soi 2+4- well see how long he gets corrupted there.

I agree. It is a common misconception that boys enter the trade because they would be mired in poverty orherwise. There are plenty of "normal" job opportunities out there. Everyone has options.