jeez, i just wandered into this thread, but boy does it present so many different avenues of discussion...

as a 4th generation asian-american, i find this thread to be particularly disturbing, mainly because of the blatant racism that is apparent through the behaviors of some club owners (as retold herein). i myself have never been to any sex clubs, but if i did go, i would never frequent a place that exercised such open discriminatory policies.

the situation in question can probably best be compared to a similar situation that happened to my family years ago. my grandfather used to own a hotel, and it was his policy not to allow blacks to stay there. (my mother told me this only a few years ago, and he has been out of the hotel business for over 50 years). this was ages ago, and done in such a manner as to "appear" polite and conciliatory. IS THIS A RACIST POLICY? now compare it to the situation at hand.

it makes me sick to my stomach that my own grandfather practiced such jim crow tactics. as a race that has been particularly hounded by both the public and our own government, i cannont stand prejudiced policies in any way shape or form. i myself have been the subject of racist remarks simply because of my outside appearance. believe me, it's not fun.

i do not pretend to be a holy saint. i know that i have my prejudices and foibles, but i know that they exist, and i work with them, rather than try and deny them.

on another point, it sickens me that angelenos are such shallow, false, guileful, decietful liars. i was born and raised in this city, and i love it to death, but many, not all but a sizable and vocal majority of the people here, gay and straight, are despicable creatures. this past summer i drove accross county, and was able to sample a wide swath of america. in places were i was the only non-white, i was treated with politeness and civility, which i returned with pleasure. of course, i never strayed too far from the interstate, but still, smiles were almost universal, as well as the simple phrases of politeness such as thank you, and have a good day. how often do you hear those in los angeles, or see a smile of politeness?

ok, on to the issue at hand... what is to be done with these clubs that seem to have been practicing a policy of exclusion?

i have read arguements that these are business ventures, and as such, should be allowed to pursue business interests as they see fit. well, the constitution allows for every citizen to pursue "happieness (which meant money to the founding fathers aka business)", but it also provides PROTECTIONS FROM PRACTICES ABBHORANT TO DEMOCRACY. the price of doing business in the united states is that you must do so in a democratic fashion. if a retail store in a metropolis such as los angeles were to deny the patronage of, say, blacks, or women, or latinos, do you think that they would stay in business? laws prevent discrimination in all levels and aspects of business. such violations should be documented and prosecuted as such. in today's day and age, such intolerace is unacceptable.

now, people do have individual tastes, as do i. however, to say that i will go to this place based on their exclusionary policies is to say i will ride the montgomery bus system because (before rosa parks) it enforces the unwritten policy that all blacks are to ride in the rear of the bus. complacency people, complacency

my biggest problem with what i've read so far has been the acceptance of this practice by the patronizing population at large. people seem to be content to end their memberships with at-fault clubs, but leave it at that. now, i don't want to draw parallels that are unjustified or unwarrented here, but the neuremburg laws started out as the legitimization of exclusion. it all starts somewhere.

i know i'm screwing these up, but i'd like to offer up a couple of quotes, the first from MLK jr, the second i don't know (perhaps e. wizel?)

"INJUSTICE ANYWHERE IS A THREAT TO JUSTICE EVERYWHERE"

WHEN THEY CAME FOR THE JEWS I SAID NOTHING
WHEN THEY CAME FOR THE POLES I SAID NOTHING
WHEN THEY CAME FOR THE CRIPPLES I SAID NOTHING
WHEN THEY CAME FOR THE GYPSIES I SAID NOTHING
WHEN THEY CAME FOR ME, THERE WAS NOBODY LEFT TO SAY ANYTHING.

complacency is the greatest evil here. MLK wrote that it wasn't the segregationalists or the klan or the racist law enforcement who would be villified in the annals of history for the evils of segregation, it would be the people who sat idly by and did nothing to end it, or aid the cause for freedom, who would ultimately be held responsible.

the gay community is not immune from racism or other forms of discrimination, whatever they might be. however, the ones who stand idly by and fail to work to end it only encourage its growth and perpetuation. complacency and acceptance are guilt in the eyes of a moral being.

now, i don't want to pontificate, and i know that i'm not doing all that i can to eliminate this scourge of discriminatory business from my fair city, however i don't feel i'm a hypocrite, since i know that i do all that is within my reasonable power to try and right the wrongs that i see. i don't stand in the way of loggers, i don't belong to greenpeace, but i do what i can.

if everyone did what they could to end this, instead of sitting idly by and watching as this practice continues, it would wither and die.

as jefferson said (i think it was jefferson anyway), "ETERNAL VIGILANCE IS THE PRICE OF LIBERTY" we cannot let our guard down. the civil rights movement never ends, stonewall is never over, we cannot sit by and think that everything is ok, because it isn't.

boy, now if i can only pour this much effort into my papers...

i welcome all comments and/or rebuttals.