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Message Board > Special Interest Forums & Discussion Groups > Legal Issues for Cruisers   How far can/will undercovers go?

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  #1  
Old 3rd February 2010, 08:41 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2002
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How far can/will undercovers go?

Can we assume if a man shows his erect penis, masturbates, or grabs another man's penis (exposed or through his pants) that he's not an undercover officer?
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  #2  
Old 3rd February 2010, 09:05 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 335
My understanding

I'm not a lawyer, so you can't bank on this. It is my understanding that unless specifically authorized as part of an undercover operation, a law enforcement agent can not engage in any criminal or illegal activity unless necessary to protect his life or the lives of others. For example, an undercover drug agent might engage in the sale, or even use, of illegal narcotics to establish his alias and protect his identity.

Lawyers have made millions arguing that some of this illegal, but "necessary", activity is entrapment. Some cases win, some lose.

Generally in the case of cruising, it is unlikely that the officer is going to expose himself or actually masturbate as this would most likely be considered entrapment, IN MY OPINION. However, he might do these things, and you both get "arrested" by his partners. You get told "your buddy" is going to cut a deal for his freedom by testifying against you. In desperation, you agree to the charges for a reduced sentence or agree to a lesser charge. You are still screwed. Or the undercover might do these things and then testify in court he didn't. Your "degenerate" word against his "law abiding" stature. You're still screwed.

Approach any new contact with caution. Talk a little first to feel him out. An undercover agent does not have time to "waste" talking. He needs to close the deal, get you arrested, and set back up for the next target. You can't be convicted, YET, in this country for talking as long as there is no mention of money.
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  #3  
Old 3rd February 2010, 10:10 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2008
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Example

The Pennsylvania Superior Court just upheld a 2008 innocent verdict against Shiatsu Spa in LeHigh County. State Police received a complaint from a customer of the massage parlor that he had been offered "manual stimulation" (hand job/happy ending) by the girl there. The informant didn't engage in the sex because he didn't have enough money. The State Police provided him with money for four trips to the massage parlor where he had sex with at least two different girls. The Police encouraged him to get more than a hand job, and paid for it. The Court did not rule that the undercover work was illegal, but ruled that the multiple trips were excessive for a successful case and therefore the State Police actions was "outrageous government conduct".

If the Troopers had exercised a little more control, their illegal (but according to them "necessary") actions might have resulted in a conviction.

Law.com - Sex With Informant Voids Prostitution Case
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  #4  
Old 5th February 2010, 09:14 AM
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Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 21

Quote:
Originally Posted by budebooth View Post
Can we assume if a man shows his erect penis, masturbates, or grabs another man's penis (exposed or through his pants) that he's not an undercover officer?
Making such an assumption has landed many guys in the back of a police car, handcuffed. Do not assume that a cop is going to play fair. Many are out there entrapping guys either because they have a personal hatred of 'queers' or they've been forced to do a job they find beneath themselves. They will do whatever it takes to haul in enough to then move on to other work or to satisfy a personal vendetta.

In the end, it is your word against the word of a cop. Try selling that in a court of law. I suggest you read this, too (special attention to question 7):

http://cruisingforsex.com/features/legalese.html
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