I have to chime in here again as well. I have to admit, I was a little offended and well, more pissed, when I read the comments about what it means to be "Gay". Of course, I do know it's all said in jest , however, it annoys me that the mainstream culture views all gay men like that and that gay men try to perpetuate that image.

I have never watched the Tony awards, suck at decorating, never say fabulous or watch any of those home improvement shows. Why? It just doesn't interest me, that's all. Does this make me any less gay? Fuck no, because I'm still sucking cock and taking dick up my ass on a regular basis. I date men, have had long term relationships with men and get aroused my men all the time. So, yeah, I'm gay and do feel like I have a gay lifestyle just because I participate in some of it, ie., sucking dick, getting fucked, cruising, watching sports games at gay bars.

See, there are a whole lot of different parts of the community, and that includes the fabulous touting men, the guys who can decorate your place like nobodys business and also the guys who are kind of slobs, don't know the first thing about decorating, but make a great fuck or partner for another guy and can be a positive asset for the community as well.

I feel excuded enough when I see the mainstream hetero culture viewing the gay community that way...not because I have anything against that part of our community, I just feel left out and think that if the "whole" community was represented, we'd make a lot more headway in our social progress because more of the mainstream culture could identify with us, not the just the part that accepts or enjoys the company of the gay men described here in the other posts.

Okay, guess tha'ts all ;-)

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I LOVE your post. You used "fabulous" in the third paragraph!

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It was meant in jest. . .

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Always looking for a JO buddy

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I think there is some confusion as to what gay or straight actually is. I've heard lots of hopefull gays wanting to turn bi or straight types into gays (in their minds) to make themselves feel better. That's a fantasy.

I've known gays that were married for 20 years. 20 years of fucking and yes caring about their wives and having orgasms never meant they were straight.

The opposite is also true. You can suck cocks and have orgasm, and if you are truly not interested in men other than to have orgasms, then you are NOT gay anymore than a closeted gay having sex with his wife 20 years makes him straight.

If you want a relationship or would prefer a relationship, both sexually and psychologically, with a woman, then I'd call that straight, regardless if you suck cocks and have orgasms. Now if you question the validity of that statement, consider its opposite--If you want a relationship or would prefer a relationship, both sexually and psychologically, with a man, then I'd call that gay, regardless if you eat pussy and have orgasms.

The problem is in the terms: bisexual means having sex with both sexes, but it gets confused with being gay and straight at the same time. It does not mean you are equally attracted to men and women, as the simple minded would have you think, nor does it mean you are gay. It means you enjoy sexual relations with both sexes. It does not stipulate whether or not you like men's bodies as well as women's, or if you jsut want to have an orgasm. It's a very misleading term out of context. There is a great difference between having sex and being gay, although the two can correspond equally. That is, gay men have sex with men. But that doesn't mean a gay man can't enjoy an orgasm with a woman and remain "gay." The oposite, if true, is also true. Put onother way, "gay" is not a sexual act alone no more than straight is.

If you were honestly gay, you'd probably go to other places men frequent also so you could "have their company." In other words, you'd probably act toward men like others do toward women, probably how you act towards women right now.

So just ignore anyone who tries to categorize you. Be an autonomous individual and do what you want to do. Be truthful with yourself, and you'll know "what you are," and don't let other people define who you are.

__________________
Will meet with discreet men w/large erections, true 7"+ & hard. Will sit down on your hard-on while you stroke me, or get on my hands and knees, reach back and massage your balls while your cock's up my asspipe. Like prostate massages and sucking. I always have enema before playing. Very clean only. No kissing or hugging, etc. Just sex.


If your cock is big and hard, I'm truly interested.

Northern California, Coos Bay, Ashland, Medford in Oregon, and other places.

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For many it emerges as attraction to just the cock and progresses to more intimate things like kissing and fucking. It's just very hard for most to overcome the social training of NOT loving a man or wanting a love relationship with one. But these are just hurdles you'll jump in due time. Many guys will suck dick at the beginning but refuse to kiss because it's too "gay". Doesn't make much sense.

The best thing to do would be to stop resisting and maybe try thinking of yourself involved with a man. Trying to convince yourself that you're straight but just happen to like sucking cock is just postponing the inevitable.

It's very PC but also misguided to tell people "labels aren't important" or "it's only important what YOU think you are" but in reality, self-deception is not healthy in the long term.

Haven't we all had experience with enough closet cases who thought the way this guy is thinking but inevitably came busting out of the closet in taffeta?

And we all find beautiful women fun to look at. But we'd rather dress them or take them shopping and to lunch than fuck them.

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A good example of what I mean. Actually, you are right for some. And you are wrong for others. But really, just give yourself time. For many, being straight emerges first as only wanting to dress women and look at them, but give it time and you will get over the "I'm I straight?" social training. And most importantly, "The best thing to do would be to stop resisting and maybe try thinking of yourself involved with a woman. Trying to convince yourself that you're gay but just happen to like looking at and dressing women is just postponing the inevitable."

So you can all see how rediculous this sounds when turned around. Like I said, be honest with yourself. If you're gay, you know it. I say this becsaue I've had several gay and lesbian friends, and not one of them said they needed to "learn" to be gay. They knew it since they were in puberty and some before.

Now this may amuse you. My last close girl friend, nonsexual, was a lesbian gal with a live in GF. She's never dated men, except to look "normal" when younger, and she knew that she was not attracted to men for relationships.

One night while her GF was away for a couple of weeks, she got horny and we started talking sex on the phone. Next thing I know she's at my front door with her miniskirt on and no panties. Fuck we had good sex. I mean kissing, hugging, making out after we both came, etc.

Still, when it was over and after I asked WTF was going on, she said muscles on guys turn her on, but nothing much else. She also explained that she was practically a nympho and that she hadn't had sex or masterbated in two weeks. She was busy with her small farm and working and just really wasn't thinking on those terms. When we started talking, she said just started thinking about being turned on to me (because I am very muscular and tall) and lost it. (We hadn't talked in about 2 months.)

So do I think she's really straight? nope. I know her true feelings and I have to respect that. And no, we have not ever done that again. She keeps her distance from me. Just to say also that I am very attracted to her and I could REALLY like her. We get along very well and were both attracted like crazy physically to each other. But it ain't gonna work, and I know that.

__________________
Will meet with discreet men w/large erections, true 7"+ & hard. Will sit down on your hard-on while you stroke me, or get on my hands and knees, reach back and massage your balls while your cock's up my asspipe. Like prostate massages and sucking. I always have enema before playing. Very clean only. No kissing or hugging, etc. Just sex.


If your cock is big and hard, I'm truly interested.

Northern California, Coos Bay, Ashland, Medford in Oregon, and other places.

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There's no taboo about being straight therefore reversal is nonsensical.

Refusing to define one's sexuality is like believing there's a third political ideology.

Can gay man fuck a woman? Maybe. Does that make him bi? No.

The guy's situation is classic. The fact that he asks "Am I gay?" means he is looking for guidance, assistance or affirmation. Even those who know they are gay often can't fathom it actually happening to them so they don't commit to it and instead live in the middle ground we try to define as "bisexual". All that means is you refuse to accept what is.

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I disagree with your idea that the analogy is really a disanalogy--because if one were "gay" and thought he was "straight" for the same reasons in this trhread, then there is good reason to think that the person might be equally confused, regardless of what psychological hangups some people have or have not given social norms.

What you are trying to do, and this is my point, is play social-psychologist instead of scientist--which means dealing with only the evidence and facts presented in this thread--not unjustified social-psychology.

Bottom line: If you are honest with yourself and you think you are either gay or straight given your attractions AND needs, then you are or are not.

__________________
Will meet with discreet men w/large erections, true 7"+ & hard. Will sit down on your hard-on while you stroke me, or get on my hands and knees, reach back and massage your balls while your cock's up my asspipe. Like prostate massages and sucking. I always have enema before playing. Very clean only. No kissing or hugging, etc. Just sex.


If your cock is big and hard, I'm truly interested.

Northern California, Coos Bay, Ashland, Medford in Oregon, and other places.

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There are many myths which exist in Queer culture. Debunking the one which says labels don't matter ranks in importance as the one about humor-impaired sock puppet users.

The reason why I self-identify as a homosexual is because I'm not a heterosexual-impaired male. If the overwhelming majority of a male's sexual partners just happen to be male, that is a pretty good indicator of that person's sexual orientation and attraction. Yes, there are indeed heterosexual-impaired males out there. Many are married, have the legal marriage license to prove it, and some even have fathered children. Many of these "married with children" males somehow manage to find themselves having sex with other males when the opportunity to engage in homosexual behavior is situationally dependent. Thus, it is possible for a heterosexual-impaired male to find himself situationally queer or homosexual when the opportunity to engage in such behavior is relatively free of risks.

Do labels matter? If you are attracted to women but find yourself going to gay baths occasionally to suck cock, the label of cocksucker is very appropriate. There is nothing wrong with self-identifying as a heterosexual-impaired cocksucker. When it comes to cocksucking, it doesn't matter if the cock you are sucking is attached to a male who self-identifies as gay, bisexual or straight. What does matter is males have cocks -- and women don't.

The question "Am I Gay" is probably better asked and answered if rephrased as "Am I Queer". Not that labels really are that important anyhow, right?

__________________
Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves. And, under a just God, cannot long retain it.

-- Abraham Lincoln

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Well, I'm not sure what you mean when you use the term "heterosexual-impaired male." I assume you mean a malke who is gay and closeted, for whatever reason. But I think I agree with what you are trying to say.

Remember there are guys who are in love with their wives and both of them suck cocks together from time to time. But the male doesn't secretly desire to have a gay relationship and be divorced from his wife.

Take another example of the prison inmate who sucks his cellmates cock, and vice-versa, but when he gets out does not "turn gay."

The main point here is simple. If you honestly desire to have relations with a female, you pursue them, have sex with them, and hang out where you can interact with them as opposed to desiring to have relationships with men, have sex with them, hang out where gay men hang out, then you are straight. The opposite is also true.

Trying to psyco-analyze "all men" with only a specific sample is committing the "specific to general" fallacy.

Those who think that wanting to suck a cock is a percursor to being gay are playing right into the religious right's hand, since they too think that this "learning" is a social thing and being gay can be unlearned. It's not only about social norms, but very real biological and innate drives that no one has control over.

Deer are said to be "bi-sexual" but that doesn't mean they are "gay." Bucks are seen humping each other all of the time, but when that female goes into estrus, they ain't humpin each other anymore. Since deer have no social norms, since they are not cognitive of such concepts, this is a good example of biological drives only--it's a sexual need. It doesn't just turn off when a female in estrus is not around.

__________________
Will meet with discreet men w/large erections, true 7"+ & hard. Will sit down on your hard-on while you stroke me, or get on my hands and knees, reach back and massage your balls while your cock's up my asspipe. Like prostate massages and sucking. I always have enema before playing. Very clean only. No kissing or hugging, etc. Just sex.


If your cock is big and hard, I'm truly interested.

Northern California, Coos Bay, Ashland, Medford in Oregon, and other places.

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Specific200 ~

Apparently ... labels do matter and are important because of the necessity to make distinctions which don't really make a substantive difference. This is probably the underlying reason why I don't use the label 'Gay' when referring to myself as a homosexual. I will sometimes refer to myself and others as 'Queer' to emphasize the essential underlying sexual orientation and attraction that distinguishes homosexuals from heterosexuals. Let's keep in mind that 'Queer' does not necessarily mean abnormal as opposed to normal. After all, just because a majority of people are heterosexuals does not mean heterosexuality is the 'norm', and all others are abnormal because they are a minority.

I don't dispute that there does exist 'situational' homosexuals whose essential underlying sexual orientation and attraction is heterosexual. Male and female prisoners are an excellent example of the 'situational' homosexual. The reality of the prison incarceration environment and the conspicuous absense of available female sex partners makes it possible for an inmate to be a 'situational homosexual' without changing their essential sexual orientation and attraction upon release from confinement and having access to female sex partners. We also do need to keep in mind that many such 'situational homosexuals' confined and imprisoned will 'buddy up' with another male inmate to survive and thrive in a prison environment where rape and gang rape crimes are a daily reality of that environment. Upon release from imprisonment or confinement, many such situational homosexuals will revert back to their essential underlying sexual orientation and attraction. Another reality of the prison incarceration environment is aggression and controlling that aggression.

Prison officials ... administrators and staff alike ... have long recognized that depriving male prisoners of a sexual outlet for extended and lengthy periods of time may induce aggressive behavior within a male prison population. Most prisons are overpopulated and horribly understaffed which makes controlling aggressive behavior paramount. Again, situational homosexuality in a prison environment helps reduce aggression and lends itself to controlling the male inmate population.

We need to recognize that 'situational homosexuality' does exist and it does not change a person's essential underlying sexual orientation and attraction. Just what constitutes a person's essential underlying sexual orientation and attraction is debatable as a question of Nature versus Nurture.

So, apparently, labels do matter to many people. It is pointless to pretend labels don't matter when our behavior often makes that point for us despite our denials to the contrary. A point made, I would argue, by the heterosexual-impaired male who somehow manages to become a 'situational homosexual' whenever he finds, on occasion, his way to a male gay bathhouse to have sex with other males. We can be absolutely certain this 'situational homosexual' (heterosexual-impaired males) is not going to a gay bathhouse for the purpose of female sexual intimacy.

__________________
Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves. And, under a just God, cannot long retain it.

-- Abraham Lincoln

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Labels are important so we have a general or even specific idea of what it is we want to talk about. But I have some real reservations with your use of terms:

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"We need to recognize that 'situational homosexuality' does exist and it does not change a person's essential underlying sexual orientation and attraction. Just what constitutes a person's essential underlying sexual orientation and attraction is debatable as a question of Nature versus Nurture.

So, apparently, labels do matter to many people. It is pointless to pretend labels don't matter when our behavior often makes that point for us despite our denials to the contrary. A point made, I would argue, by the heterosexual-impaired male who somehow manages to become a 'situational homosexual' whenever he finds, on occasion, his way to a male gay bathhouse to have sex with other males. We can be absolutely certain this 'situational homosexual' (heterosexual-impaired males) is not going to a gay bathhouse for the purpose of female sexual intimacy."
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First, situational homosexuality can be extended to outside of the prison environment. If you are a male who desires females, and hookers and barflys don't do it for you, then you have a situation. That's my main point using the prison example, not to pigeon hole the term "situational homesexual" into a prison only environment.

Second, sexual orientation for the vast majority of people is biologically determined--the vast majority of people have a strong attraction to the opposite sex. If we didn't have this attraction, we could never have gotten where we are as a race, no animal could. It starts with biology. This doesn't mean we cannot learn to be gay and lesbian, because that study has already been confirmed among more primitive cultures. But this is a huge digression. The guy simply was asking if he was "gay," not if he was condintioned or born that way. Perhaps he was conditioned to be gay (for whatever reason) and his biology, which may be biologically determined attracted to females is confusing him, or vice versa. Only he can figure that out.

Third, why do you call males "heterosexual-impaired" when they want hetero sex but cannot or are not getting it from females, that they more so desire? (Watch how many "gay" guys flock to get off with a women when she comes into a ABS. Fucking line out the door practically.)

Their heterosexuality is not impaired, but rather their ability to partake in heterosexual encounters with a female does not keep pace with their sexual needs. Perhaps that is what you mean, but the term sounds less descriptive and more psychological. Again, if you have a straight forward definition and any evidence to support that definition, I'd be more than happy to have a look.

Last, you are right, males visiting male bath houses are not looking for female fun. I'd put the vast majority of guys at male bath houses in the gay or definitively and truly "bi-gay" area. They are not confused about it. Along the same line of reasoning, guys who need an orgasm and have learned to or have some natural turn on sucking a cock or letting another man suck theirs behind a GH are not confused about their sexuality either. They desire females, want a female for a relationship, and don't have that reality, and they are still horny and want an orgasm.

My only point to this thread was this: Don't let anyone try to tell you what you are or label you. That's a brainwashing game. You know what you desire, and only you can tell you what you are and label yourself. If you look to others to answer questions like "Am I gay" then each one will tell you what they think you are, or should be, or whatever you want to hear to get in your pants, which may not even come close to reality.

Simple test: If you truly desire to have sexual and psychological relationships with males on a continuing basis and you do not desire to have that type of relationship with a females, that is, you are not attracted to females physically and do not desire to have intimate, psychological and sexual relationships with women, given your healty mind and childhood (no brainwashing, abuse, etc.) then you are probably gay or at least gay oriented. And even if you were brainwashed or socially integrated into being gay, and you desire the above scenario, then you are probably, for all practical reasons, gay. (You may not desire to unlearn gay affiliation, if that hypothetical is even possible, which given anthropological studies I've read, is not only possible, but actual. Those who learned to be gay--to stop over population in this one study--didn't want to go back having sex and relationships with females that they were originally attracted to--again, a big digression. Incidentally, there was a problem with under population in that study until people got re-adjusted to heterosexual relationships. Very interesting indeed.)

__________________
Will meet with discreet men w/large erections, true 7"+ & hard. Will sit down on your hard-on while you stroke me, or get on my hands and knees, reach back and massage your balls while your cock's up my asspipe. Like prostate massages and sucking. I always have enema before playing. Very clean only. No kissing or hugging, etc. Just sex.


If your cock is big and hard, I'm truly interested.

Northern California, Coos Bay, Ashland, Medford in Oregon, and other places.

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The only reason labels are important is because society places moral judgments on them. Being heterosexual is viewed for the most part as moral, while gay, bi etc., are usually not, although, times are changing, even if at a snails pace.

Well adjusted gay men usually are angered by bi or closeted gay men not abiding by these labels because they feel it’s a cop out that they’re not identifying as truly bi or gay due to the fear of judgments that will be placed on them, which, affects how you view yourself.

BMG is right on with the situational homosexuality. It’s a valid sociological term and is mostly mentioned when talking about prisons since situational homosexuality, or anything situational for that matter, is caused by a controlled environment, such as a prison, where the environment is controlling you, not the other way around. So, a heterosexual male that wants to orgasm, and isn’t into barfly’s or hookers, is not being controlled by any means, therefore, if he chooses to seek out a male for sexual gratification, it’s at his own free will. Does this make him bi? I’d say yes, but, most posts I read here on these forums from guys usually say no and will give them the benefit of the doubt I have. However, my true feelings are that when it comes to men that seek out sex with men at their own accord and free will, I can't see how this makes them heterosexual. Having sexual attraction and activity with both sexes, is after all "bi-sexual".

It would be ideal if we lived in a society where labels didn’t matter and it was just “Do you prefer to have sex with men, women or both?” No judgments or reactions, just people expressing their sexual desires in a safe and comfortable environment in which they can be attained without having to resort to deception or lying to one’s self in order to maintain dignity and respect.

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When you say "such as a prison, where the environment is controlling you, not the other way around," are you implying that the prisoner cannot choose not to participate is sexual relations with other men? If on the other hand the prisoner can choose to not have sexual relations with another man, then the effect society has on anyone is a matter of degree, and not kind. You seem to have this very real need, for whatever reason, to treat this subject as a matter of kind, not degree. That's why labels are a hard sell in many cases. That matter of degree thing--some call it gray area--is something that completely or nearly completely straight and gay people do not get. It tends to piss off straights and gays, but to different ends. So I'll agree to disagree with you on that subject.

However, again we digress. This subject is whether or not this guy is gay. Again, and this will be my final post on the subject, sexual activity with the same sex does not make--nor can it make--one gay, or straight. And I believe I've already said all I have to say on that subject.

__________________
Will meet with discreet men w/large erections, true 7"+ & hard. Will sit down on your hard-on while you stroke me, or get on my hands and knees, reach back and massage your balls while your cock's up my asspipe. Like prostate massages and sucking. I always have enema before playing. Very clean only. No kissing or hugging, etc. Just sex.


If your cock is big and hard, I'm truly interested.

Northern California, Coos Bay, Ashland, Medford in Oregon, and other places.

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No "need" really, just my thoughts and opinion on the subject.

I can meet you half way here though because I do understand the "kind" and "degree" theory you just stated.

Interesting discussion and one we could talk about forever I'm sure. Hopefully the original poster got something useful out of it.

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