[jonn3]

I was clicking around on the Internet and came accross this report from the "Centers for Disease Control and Prevention" on the percentage of gays.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhsr/nhsr077.pdf

The basic findings are:

Based on the 2013 NHIS data [collected in 2013 from 34,557 adults aged 18 and over], 96.6% of adults identified as straight, 1.6% identified as gay or lesbian, and 0.7% identified as bisexual. The remaining 1.1% of adults identified as “something else[]" [0.2%,] stated “I don’t know the answer[]" [0.4%] or refused to provide an answer [0.6%].

I know a huge percentage of people lie on surveys like this - I know I have in the past - but that percentage seems low - especially the 0.7% that report as bisexual.

It seems like in every family / extended family there is at least one member who is gay (or as we used to say - a bachelor Uncle).

If it truly was only 1.6% I don't think gay rights would not have gained any support or the attention it has.

[infopop]

I don't believe we'll know "what percentage are really gay" because the word, the identity, and the activity have quite fluid meanings.

Those meanings have changed over time. They still vary from person to person, in different contexts, communities, places, and so on.

I skimmed through the report and saw a description of the actual survey:

The first of the four cascading sexual orientation questions that were included in the 2013 NHIS, which is asked of all sample adults aged 18 and over, reads, "Which of the following best represents how you think of yourself?" It has five response options, which vary slightly by respondent sex.

For male respondents, they are:

• Gay,
• Straight, that is, not gay,
• Bisexual,
• Something else, and
• I don’t know the answer.

For female respondents, the response options are:

• Lesbian or gay,
• Straight, that is, not lesbian or gay,
• Bisexual,
• Something else, and
• I don’t know the answer.

Respondents who answered "something else" or "I don’t know the answer" were asked one or more follow-up question(s) to provide additional information on their sexual orientation. However, data from these follow-up questions were not used in this report, and the questions will not be included in NHIS starting in 2015 (see forthcoming methodology report for more information). Although not an explicit response option, respondents could refuse to provide an answer to any of these questions.

The survey allows people not only to lie, of course, but it provides no definitions for the answers. Whether in the 1950s closet or the 2010s down low, there's a lot of men who have sex with men who do not call themselves gay or bisexual. Some, but not all, have aspects of a gay identity which is different from same-sex sexual activity.

I don't believe that anyone who does not have a very strong sense of themselves as being gay (not "queer" or "genderqueer" or "qestioning" or...) and also out, to themselves and others is going to choose "gay" or "lesbian" as the answer.

Anecdote: I was a census-taker in 1980 going from house to house to interview people who had not mailed in their 1980 Census forms. I remember one lady who emphatically insisted that I list her race as "Other" and write in "Chicana." My boss was equally insistent that he was not Mexican-American, he was "Castilian" because he claimed his family was purely descended from the Spanish. I didn't ask if he was "White" for the Census. People are who they say they are, not the classifications scientists and demographers want to apply to them.

So. If the survey respondents' lives are segmented, as many people's are, they'll probably say they're straight regardless of who or how many of whatever gender or identity they have some type of sex. (Some people say, "Oral sex isn't sex." To me, any touch, action, speech, or even look - voyeurs, anyone? - that brings sexual gratification is sex. I have a broad definition. And I digress...)

Then there's the whole change in Western cultures, mingling gay and straight and everything else more and more.

I could rattle on and on, wondering if I should be a writer instead of running web sites, but I'm behind on work as usual. Countering that, I have so many emergencies and unplanned events causing stress that writing seems to alleviate. Running CFS, at least I finally have something to write about, a lack which had stymied me since my college years.

On to work...

~ Bob

[KewlDewd66]

Originally Posted by infopop

I don't believe we'll know "what percentage are really gay" because the word, the identity, and the activity have quite fluid meanings.

Those meanings have changed over time. They still vary from person to person, in different contexts, communities, places, and so on.

I skimmed through the report and saw a description of the actual survey:

The survey allows people not only to lie, of course, but it provides no definitions for the answers. Whether in the 1950s closet or the 2010s down low, there's a lot of men who have sex with men who do not call themselves gay or bisexual. Some, but not all, have aspects of a gay identity which is different from same-sex sexual activity.

I don't believe that anyone who does not have a very strong sense of themselves as being gay (not "queer" or "genderqueer" or "qestioning" or...) and also out, to themselves and others is going to choose "gay" or "lesbian" as the answer.


Then there's the whole change in Western cultures, mingling gay and straight and everything else more and more.

~ Bob

I very much agree with Bob here.

Even among the obviously gay guys I have known for a number of years, there is a great deal of disagreement on the subject of defining 'gay'.

Everybody seems to agree that if you are totally out, living together with another guy who you introduced to everyone else as your hubby, partner, BF, etc., you ARE gay.

Now, beyond this, almost everyone disagrees on what being gay really means.

I am a functionalist, and for me a gay guy is someone who has established a pattern of sexual behaviour which involves sexual activities with other men under the normal living conditions.

A dude who experimented in college but never went back to it is not gay. A dude who has very limited or no access to available females due to his life condition and is finding sexual release with other men is also not really gay but someone undergoing situational homosexuality.

Modern psychology insists that our sexual behavior matters less than who we find sexually attractive. So, a dude who has never had any sex with another guy BUT finds men (of one type or other; or men in general) sexually attractive is gay.

How can we really prove what goes through his mind, ie. whom he finds attractive, and why would this be of any importance to the rest of us unless he acts upon it, somehow escapes me.

A good friend of mine insists on differentiating between the homosexuals and gay men.

Homosexuals are men who have established a pattern of sexual behavior that involves other men only but who do not subscribe to any known mode of gay lifestyle at all.

And gay men are the homosexuals who buy specific underwear, go to specific holiday destinations, are out to everybody, may be prone to wearing their sexuality on their sleeves, are usually involved with openly gay groups, etc.

I am sure that other guys have their own takes on this, too.

Hence, asking people to say if they are gay or str8 these days really makes very little sense unless you provide them with a definition of being gay that you want to espouse.

In addition to all of the above, how can we really corroborate that what people say in such surveys is really true? Such surveys really collect anecdotal evidence and not much more...

KD

[pike]

1.6% identified as gay or lesbian

For one thing there are a lot fewer lesbians than gays so they are holding down the percentage.

Also, why is it important to you to know the exact percentage?