I WAS WRONG DEPARTMENT.

Babylon does have some safe-sex warnings.The wing located on the Banyan Tree side has a warning advertisment at the entrance to the wet area and upstairs in two locations are two posters artistically presenting some sobering statistics.

The placement of sheath and lube in the locker is also,in
a way, a reminder about safe-sex.

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For those with earphones or able to download podcast this is an interesting discussion with an author on her angle about HIV.Entertaining as well as informative.

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/latenightli...08/2295039.htm

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Possibly one thing we on this board can do is inform the owners of the various bars and saunas that they should post AIDS and HIV warnings prominently in their establishments. Quite a few of us are frequent patrons of these places and often known by the owners/managers and we should tell them that we will not return unless these warnings are posted.

As a further thought, why not get a group of us together, have some noticeable signs made up at our expense and give them to bar owners and managers to post prominently. I'm sure we have some pretty good designers who could come up with excellent posters.

I am presently out of the country, soon to return, but can contribute to this idea through friends currently in LOS!

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In principle, I'd be happy to contribute. But I believe some form of dialogue is necessary with the bar owners beforehand to get their agreement.

However, more productive would be to do this with the sauna owners. I believe the bar boys are pretty clued in on the dangers of unsafe sex, whereas a large number of the younger Thais who patronise the saunas obviously are not. So it's not just signs that are needed but a plentiful and continuing supply of condoms.

Again the owners agreement would be needed and this might be a lot more tricky, but if the closing down threat is serious, then perhaps they'll listen.

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My personal thought is that outsiders -- foreigners -- have no business getting involved. This is an issue for the Thais to work on themselves. My credo is "head down; fly under the radar". That is good advice for foreigners in Thailand, especially ones (like us) that occasionally get involved in the seamier side of things.

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No matter where on the planet the best way of having an influence is making it known to a partner wishing to B.B that you have a safe only policy.For some it will sober them,others nothing will change their attitude.

Many times I am given the option,sometimes it is just playing around in advance i know,but without preaching I hope I reinforce the message.

A mature man's leadership cannot be underestimated.

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-- In theory YES.
- But having seen farangs - in B*B*L*N SAUNA - becoming involved in unprotected, (bareback), s*x with Ths., and vice-versa, (some like it that way!), I'm not so sure. Plus I've had had farangs pointed-out to me in S*L*M C*MPL*X as paying only for unsafe s*x, too.
- As we farangs participate all too willingly with Ths. in certain aspects of our lives etc. shouldn't we become equally involved.
-- Bibi.. --

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Everyone must take responsibility for one's own actions.

When a Thai and a farang have unsafe sex, the Thai is just as responsible as the farang.

As for possible efforts to lobby the Thai government to regulate gay saunas, I don't see any benefit to having foreigners getting involved.

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I am not sure anyone in this post was suggesting that. It is Khun Natee who proposed it and this led to the discussion of how to get the safe sex message across to young Thais, massage parlour owners being seemingly reluctant to take any kind of lead.

I agree, icon513, but only to the point where both parties know exactly what they are getting into. There is plenty of evidence out there to show that rates of HIV AIDS amongst younger Thais is rapidly increasing. This leads me to believe that many Thais do not know that b-b-ing can be highly unsafe. That being the case, then surely foreigners who live here and enjoy the benefits of living here do indeed have a responsibility to do something to help ram home (no apology for the pun!) the safe sex message.

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The rates are also going up among young farangs.

I just don't buy into the patronizing attitude that farangs are somehow better informed and should be more responsible than their Thai counterparts.

The fact is that there is just as much bb stuff going on in San Francisco as in Thailand. The situation is deteriorating everywhere.

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Totally agree with the basic premise. But when the Thais themselves are doing virtually nothing, is it therefore incumbent on farangs just to sit back and also do nothing? With that I can not agree. I have had friends die from HIV Aids before the means of transmission was fully known. Now that we know all the facts of transmission, are we simply to stand aside and do nothing to try and prevent a further spread of this ghastly virus?

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Tell your friends, tell your acquaintances, tell your sex partners.

But, if you know what's good for you, I'd strongly recommend against getting involved in any activist activities in Thailand.

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I just do not see how any reasonable person can stand by and simply ignore what is going on re what is primarily a health education issue. Having a concern - and trying in a small way to do something about it - is not in my book 'activism'. At one extreme, it's a matter of self interest for all who engage in anonymous sex. At the other, it is trying to get across a message that will save lives, one that sauna owners care little about, seemingly. I fail to understand how this is not "good" for me.

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Hi Icon,

I am always interested and respect your views on surviving in Thailand and am wondering exactly why you give the advice not to get involved.The reasons possibly may be an understanding of the sinister in law enforcement and beauracracy rather than transplanted farangs,who are always no more than guests here, annoyingly pontificating.Could you expand please.

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Well, it all goes back to my "fly under the radar" credo.

If you thrust yourself into public view in Thailand, especially when it has to do with sensitive subject matter (gay saunas, gay sex, AIDS...), and when it has the potential of rubbing people the wrong way (the sauna owners, the police, politicians, who knows who else), it is just asking for trouble.

Upset the balance, piss off the wrong person, and you could end up deported and made persona non grata, in jail on some obscure charge you hadn't even thought of, or even dead. If you are just a tourist, or a retiree, you are even more vulnerable.

Do what you want, but I've seen a lot of farangs try to screw with the system and ending up regretting it.

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