I went twice to Soi Twilight this week. Tuesday was quiet except in Boys Bangkok . Thursday more crowded. As I sat in Maxis, I watched the people coming in the soi. At least 75% entered the BBB empire. I followed suit, and it was well attended. The show was as usual. The off fee asked was 500 bahts : "because first boy's bar in Thailand" ! The very nice boy I sat with, told me : "Too many boys, too few customers". One of his friends had not been offed in a month !

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First boys bar in Thailand my ass.

I think that distinction goes to Tulip, which opened as the first gay off-bar in Thailand on Soi Convent in 1969 (where Liberty Tower is now).

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My understanding is that places with boys available has a very long history in Thailand as it does in many countries.

My colleague in China tells me that man/man massage with attention to cleaning the tube / massaging various pieces of the plumbing and other activities is well documented in very long term Chinese history, was and still is considered part of 'men's health activities'.

However, re Thailand, in the 'gay bar' set up we now see my understanding is the same as ICON, Tulip was the first, in fact I went there many many times starting three decades ago, they always had many very interesting young men. The owner, long deceased, was a great guy and ran a very happy ship.

Boys of Bangkok / Dream boys are in fact fairly new to the scene. The old Twilight was in existence at least 20 years before boys / dream boys.

Tawan is also well well before boys / dream boys, and Tawan has it's own history, started on Suriwongse road and initially offered very young boys (18+) who always danced full nude but always with one hand over their equipment. The owner (same guy as today) suddenly changed the stock to 50% muscleguys and 50% guys with nice definement but not musclemen. Then it moved around the corner to it's current location. In it's old location it was famous for short changing. Standard routine: change comes, it's short, speak to the waiter, waiter goes back to cashier, then correct change comes.

Dream boys was initially across Suriwongse Road, It was Barberie for a very long time operated by a very strict owner Mr Boon, it changed it's name to Dream boys when the farang syndicate bought it, then fairly quickly changed location to the soi where it's not located and went thru a couple of reconfigurations to the set up seen today, incorporating the old Sexy Circus venue.

But I'm wondering whether the reason for the 500Baht fee quoted was because it was the first day for that specific working boy? Mamasans can be creative, sometimes.

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Gentlemen, this use of the word 'boy' needs to stop, please, especially the example I'm quoting, above. We have specific rules in our terms of use that forbid the discussion of underage youth. I realize very often, in fact most often, these are young LEGAL men and not boys, but it is best we call them what they are: young men/guys/men.

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Good luck with that, Keith. That's what guys are called up to thirty and beyond here. And probably half or more of the bars have "Boys" somewhere in their names ("Boys Bangkok", "Boys Boys Boys", "Happy Boys", "Future Boys", "Ocean Boys"...)

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Sorry, I infringed your post, but it won't be easy not to use the word boy in a forum such as this !

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The last thing I want to do is stop or interfere with discussion. And I've been gay enough decades to know that somewhere in Palm Springs, in a bar, is probably a 42 year-old man who still uses boy to describe himself (god help us). But pedophilia is not something we can tolerate around here and I felt that this particular phrasing, "My understanding is that places with boys available..." has crossed that line. All I ask is that you be careful in your words so there can be no misunderstanding.

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-- Are int'l. airlines partly to blame for a possible DOWN-turn in the number of visitors to the LoS. in gen'l. and to BKK. in particular?

-- Generalising from one person's experiences, the professorial friend of my Enthusiastic and American Friend, he was here earlier this yr., admitted that he delayed enquiring until about ten days before Christmas, and was quoted a YR. fare CHARLESTON, SC., (CHS.) - BKK. at USD.2,998.oo.; he allowed that he didn't do any shopping-around for fares.
- Additionally, I gather that fewer aeroplanes are flying and that the int'l. airlines do what they can to ensure that their 'planes. fly with as near 100%. safe capacity as they can manage - even if that means flying PAX. to hub-airports and timing/delaying flights so that the 'planes. would be full.

-- The prof. in question flew to PUERTO VALLARTA, (PVR.), for some $550.oo. and alleged that enjoyed as good a time as he would have done here in BKK. and at a LESSER & o'all. cost - or so I was told.
- I've made a posting in the MEXICO thread with further info. ... .

-- E&OE. as reported speech.

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This objection to the use of the word "boy" is utterly ridiculous. Maybe it is a problem in the USA, but why impose prissy American values on an international site?

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-- Possibly what was meant was that this is not the oldest bar, greatest longevity, but is now BKK's premier bar in terms of rating when compared to other & similar bars?

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Who says it's the premier bar?

What ratings are you referring to?

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Indeed ! What was meant : it is the "best" now. Quotation from the mamasan and the boy of course when I questionned the price asked.
From what I have seen that evening it is evident : it is head and shoulders above the others in quantity of customers. If that justify the 500 is another question. They boast of having 100 boys, and from the look of it, they musn't be so far. Is that a good thing ?

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