Sunnee Plaza
 

Well I think I may have witnessed the death throes of the OLD Sunnee Plaza tonight. Walking past one of the last of the outrageous bars, Good Boys, I was surprised to see it had closed. Surprised as the last time I visited the mamasan boasted how in 5 years it had never been raided because the cops owned half of it.

Well as I struggled to read the handwritten Thai notice on the door, I became aware of an unusally high number of Thai guys in the street - all dressed in black jackets - with Police written on their backs! Continuing to Soi Yen Sabai I realsied the whole area was swarming with black and kakhi clad cops (not the local boys) and the entrance was blocked by 2 large unmarked utes. Clearlry there is finally a political determination to stamp out the underage elements, and the local cops have lost control. Vale Sunnee !

There were just doing urine checks. From where my car was parked I copuld see they put about five or six guys and a ladyboy in a pickup or something. They did not even look remotely underage.

I read a report today than on 5th Jan 300 Police sealed off Pattaya Soi 6 (where there are dozens of girly bars) ostensibly searching for drugs. They also rounded up a half doz or so unfortunates (inc one lady boy) and whisked them away. Nothing significant was found but the papaer reported this as part of a determined move by BKK to clean up Pattaya and magically transform it from Sin City, to family paradise.

So last night's raid on Sunnee (not 300 but maybe 50 or 60 cops) was part of the same campaign and is designed to send a message - Pattaya's days of drugs, sex and rock 'n roll are numbered.

Personally I doubt a few hundred cops are a match for the hundreds of thousands of tourists pouring in to let their hair down, and thousands of Thai's that are ready to help them.

Going to clean up Pattaya for families is the pinnacle of ridiculous!!!

Does anyone really think Pattaya would exist without SEX.???

Name me one thing it has to offer. Close Walking Street and Soi 6 etc and Pattaya will turn into DUST!!!

Another one gone ! Wonderland bar closed last night. Last week had about 12 reasonable looking go go guys, but very few customers.

From what I have seen on other online forum boards, the latest campaign, of which the sweep of Sunee was a part, is largely confined to the drug problem. KQuill and some others think that it is even less than that -- just a photo op for a bigwig who wants to score political points being seen doing his job.

It is both unnecessary, and contradicted by first-hand reports, to think that the police are on some sort of campaign to shut down the sex trade. So let's not go overboard with any alarm.

We must beware of two things:

1. Letting our own "guilty conscience" about buying sex (often a product of Judeo-Christian indoctrination) manifest itself in a kneejerk response where the moment someone speaks about police action, we automatically think it is action against sex;

2. Letting those whose interest is directed at partners of borderline or questionable age speak for us. To them, indeed, police action rounding up the underaged -- which happens from time to time -- would represent a "closing down of sex" and reason enough for shrill cries of "the end of all that is Pattaya". But the rest of us should not unthinkingly be sucked into this stream, lending our voices to it and thereby becoming guilty by association.

Agree this campaign is ostensibly about drugs, but all the reports I've been reading over the past month show total failure to find anything other than a few low level pushers and some positive urine tests.

It is a in all likely-hood a PR campaign which is all about show not substance, with those controlling the trade tipped off well in advance.

There is however a strong PR message about cleaning up the sin city image of Pattaya and that does suggest the sex trade is being targetted by some-one, although I think we all agree they are doing the "King Kanute" thing with no chance of success.

I'm not sure where you are going with your item 2. re underage. I dont think any of the posters here are bemoaning that element of the clean up.

We are on the same page regarding this. It's good that we share the same starting position in our analysis.


Where is that suggestion ("PR message about cleaning up the sin city image of Pattaya and that does suggest the sex trade is being targetted") coming from? From the authorities' mouths? From the evidence of their actions? It seems to me that it is mainly coming from some farangs who take an unduly broad reading of the facts.

I can concede that the authorities themselves have not taken the trouble to articulate clearly what their objectives are and how narrow those aims are (most probably because it is not politically possible to exclude adult prostitution so explicitly without incurring the ire of foreign NGOs driven by holier-than-thou agenda). In my view, the authorities' silence then allows space to some board posters' alarms that give the impression that adult sex is being targetted. As a result, there can be collateral damage in that potential visitors to Pattaya are then needlessly discouraged, thereby inflicting economic damage to adult sex venues.

All I am saying is: Let's not add to the collateral damage by mindlessly echoing the unfounded fear that adult sex is being targetted.

I'm not suggesting that anyone here is motivated by that element. The key phrase I used was "guilt by association". Echoing fears about a general clampdown on adult sex when there is no general clampdown (but only a clampdown on the underaged trade) risks further confusing the two. So please let's be very careful not to join the wrong protest march -- that was my point.

The only things I see them trying to clean up are drugs and underage sex.

And, in Soi 6, the actual providing of sex services on-site.

What was the problem again?
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I think the whole sex trade might be gone maybe a decade from now. If I look back to 10 - 15 years ago and now, there are far fewer bars, far fewer guys, and far, far more Russians. The Russians come for the sun, not the sex. And we can find the boys online. Much cheaper and easier.

I popped into Good Boys very briefly on the weekend. It was all but dead. Virtually empty. I stayed for one drink then left. I'm sure it will be back in one form or another at some juncture.

I just heard a report on Pattaya radio. It said that following Pattaya's relaxation of licencing closing times, BKK is concerned this will lead to an increase in drug and sex related crimes at the same time as the PM has demanded a 20% reduction in crime.

Tuesday's raid on Sunnee was "organised and directed" by the new Minister for Justice using BKK and local police. (If the locals were involved the "Mr Bigs' will have been tipped off.) Total haul was one illegal fire-arm, a handful of ya-baa tablets and a few under-age sex workers. Hardly justification for the hundreds of poilce apparently brought in.

Apart from that I agree with the recent comments above. Russians are now dominating the beach, while on-line hook ups replacing the bars (no -off fee, no expensive drinks but definitely AYOR.)

There WERE tip-offs, in spite of BKK police being used (according to my sources). That is why so little was found, and the problem continue.

I wish they would start submitting the garage that patronize some of those blatant underage bars to pee and passport checks.
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This constant harping on underage is tiresome. I have been going to Pattaya for 15 years and there are less underage boys in the bars then ever before..

Many of the underage bars are no more . Eros, Sundance, Jimmy Jimmy James etc etc etc are all closed .

I am not going to tell you that Krazy Dragon or Niceboys or My Mic might not have a 16 or 17 year old mixed in. But the bars with 13, 14 ,15 year old are no more and in the Beer Bars finding anyone under 24 would be an achievement.

The bottom line is that thins are dramatically better and anyone who says there not is speaking with out any real knowledge.

And by the way if everyone took the time to examine ID's the last of the underage boys would disappear.

Agree 100% (although a bar called Eros is still open but all look legal to me). You can add to the closed list Tom Yum, Euro Boys, Kaos etc.

Are you suggesting that having 16 and 17 year olds on site should be shrugged off?

The situation may be better than it was -- but Sunee's reputation remains intact (and for good reason).

Everyone knows that it is still the place to go for those with "exotic tastes". And the apathy (if not outright belligerence) of the regulars down there is deafening.

You are so completely wrong that it is unbelievable.

There are 100's of regulars that go to Sunnee. A very small % may be looking for underage boys. The rest are quite happy with boys of age who already look much younger to a Caucasian eye.

These regulars have no control over the boys offered except not to patronize the Bar when it is evident that many of the boys are underage at least to their eyes.

That is in fact what has happened which is why so many have closed. You need to also remember it is impossible to tell a Thai boys age by looking at him. I can parade many in front of you that you might say are underage when in fact they are 23 or 24.

Also I will have no problem finding an underage boy in Boystown or on Soi Twilight in Bangkok. Does that mean those bars and that area should be disparaged. Of Course not!!!

There is underage in all the girl bars in Pattaya and Bangkok also but again it has become a smaller and smaller %.

Nothing happens overnight and instead of disparaging certain areas for past transgressions, how about recognizing the improvements and supporting the continued improvement.

Every time you make Sunnee sound like pedophile Heaven you encourage more and more pedophiles to visit the Area!!!

Icon now I see in another thread you admit to not being in Sunnee for 6 months. I think people who have been there recently and not just one visit are probably in a lot better position to comment on Sunnee Plaza in its current state!!!!

Didn't say any of those things.

NOT all customers who go to Sunee and NOT all bars there offer underage.

It IS, however -- without debate -- the number one destination for people with those tastes. And blatant underage (not 23 or 24 year olds who might look 18) is still available to anyone within about two seconds of making your desire clear.

This is well known, I'm not letting on any secrets here.

I will have another look in the next couple weeks and report back. If it looks like Tuscany, or if blatant underage is suddenly not there, I'll eat my hat.

Everything goes in cycles including sexual behavior. Online sex is never going to go away, but just because it appears to have eclipsed real world encounters, doesn't mean it will always be that way. Here in America there is something of a reaction to all the deceptions of Internet hookups happening and some men are discovering the 'efficiency' of standing next to the man you're sizing up, not relying on his online profile.

"Everyone knows that it is still the place to go for those with "exotic tastes". And the apathy (if not outright belligerence) of the regulars down there is deafening." YOUR WORDS

Of course it is what you said!!!! Would you like to retract the words.
"apathy (if not outright belligerence) of the regulars down there is deafening."

You want to paint the entire area and the customers with 1 brush and as I have shown you and everyone else. You are wrong.

From the photos you post that are at least a year old and 1/2 the bars have been replaced with much newer Bars etc. to your all encompassing comments where you paint everyone with 1 brush.

Stop trying to be an expert on a place you have not visited in 6 months and that even then probably spent only 10 minutes in.

Keep trumpeting that Sunnee Plaza is underage heaven and see if you can get some more pedophiles to visit.

Instead talk about the improvements and the lack of any bars who specialize in underage and maybe they will go someplace else.

But at the very least stop posting like you are an authority on Sunnee Plaza. Because as everyone realize by now you are not!!!!!!

I think you need to take biggles' advice and take a chill pill, Nancy. Far too many exclamation points.

Interesting twist on Tuesday's police raid on Sunnee. Walked past Good Boys late tonight and - surprise surprise, its open and business as usual. It was obviously just a lucky co-incidence that the owners decided to give their hard working boys a well earned (unpaid) day off on Tuesday, so there was no-one on premise to age or urine test when the big bad boys from Bangkok came a- calling. Couldn't be due to the fact Good Boys is part owned by a senior member of the local constabulary - could it ??? Tut tut , perish the thought, of course not :)

On a less flippant note- it really makes the point that this is just grand-standing / PR by BKK politicians with no real intention to change anything. The system in Pattaya is too well established to let BKK control the agenda - or the cash!

Icon

You need to have enough honesty to admit when you are wrong or unduly prejudiced by things you saw or thought you saw many months ago!

I said I would revisit in coming weeks.

If it has magically been transformed from a cesspool to a sparkling Tuscan-like village square in the past six months, I will readily admit my opinion was out of date.

How's that?

If you let me know when, I'll shout you a Campari on the rocks so you can soak up the full Italian atmosphere. :)

Nastiest beverage known to mankind, but perhaps a different tipple.

Icon513,

Not acceptable. You need to admit that it is much better with some new Bars and less underage Boys around(in fact substantially less)

Not that it is a Tuscan Village because I never said that. This is Thailand. I don't want a village full of thieves and pickpockets and where drinks $10-15 US.

I want an area with a choice of bars and comfortable chairs, and fair prices and a lot of eye candy that might be available.

I will take that over a Tuscan Village anyday!

"Not acceptable" to hold a view that differs from yours? Then I'll just stay home.

Your responses are inane . No where have I said you can't have your own opinion. What you should not do is spew out information like it is a fact instead of your opinion.

You should not engage in discourses with other members about which you by your own admission have no recent knowledge.

Acting like you are an authority on Sunnee Plaza when you have no recent experience (6months) and I would be willing to bet extremely limited experience in total.

Bottom line if you don't know what you are talking about , you should shut up. Believe me everybody here now knows you have no recent experience in Sunnee Plaza and anything you say about it is based on limited experience and past prejudices.

Stick with commenting on things where you can add helpful information instead of made up facts and year old photos etc.

That is in fact why this board exists!

Dear Firecat.

Everybody has the right to express their opinions on this board or wherever, and you need to respect that right.

In fact overall I agree with ICON. Your claims that it's all now different and cleaned up or whatever is rubbish.

I walk through SUNEE, and I see underage boys everywhere. Very recently I went inside one go-go venue and instantly walked out because the boys dancing were very clearly underage, and very definitely not 23 or 24 but looking underage.

You seem to suggest that the 'bad' venues have closed. I suggest to you that they have closed because they could not survive as viable businesses because of severe lack of customers because of political turmoil etc etc.

You may not like other people stating it as they see it, but please respect others rights to state their opinions and observations.

I guess the reality is that while a lot of bars have closed, and there are a lot less underage boys in the area than before, they are still there if you want to find them (as they are in BKK.) Good Boys is notorious, but I believe most of the other blatant offenders have closed (Kaos, Sundance, Euro, Jummy James, Tom Yum etc.) In the last 12 months I've never had a hint of underage at Happy, Wonderland (closed thro drugs), Eros or Krazy Dragon and that only leaves Mics and Nice Boys, which are probably borderline at best !

The many beer bars appear to have legal boys, although I'm not sure if to work in those 18 or 20 is the min age.

As for the European Square thing, I started that just to make a point that the area is changing - the new beer bars are quite smartly designed and equiped - and the area in front of Don Plaza could have a European feel if you half close your eyes and force down a Campari or sweet Vermouth. (Dont take me too seriously guys - just trying to get the board rocking :)

Really? Where exactly on line...Cheers

Gay Romeo.com
I have one in my bed right now :)

(20 y.o. , cute as apple pie, bubble butt, f**ks like a rabbit and will take my 1,000 bt when he wakes up and ask when I'd like to see him next.)

I prefer Gayromeo. Plenty of hot lads like biggles has in bed right now.

Others site are Fridae, Ratefun, Gaydar and Camfrog. And there are Thai gay sites full of tasty delights.

XFun

You are entitled to your opinion but not your own facts. You walked through Sunee and saw a lot of kids. I walked through Central Mall yesterday and saw lots of kids. That does not meany what you are trying to say.

The facts are which are agreed by every other poster here except you and Icon is that Sunee is MUCH improved. The underage Bars are gone except for one and money is being spent everywhere improving many of the bars.

Does that mean an occasional 16 or 17 year old might not be found in a bar. Absolutely not, just like they can be found in any other area of Thailand with Gay or Lady Bars.

What it means is that not so long ago many bars had routinely had 16 year olds and younger on offer. That is no longer the case.

And until you and Icon admit the vast improvement your opinions are worthless and in fact encourage the pedophiles to come to Sunee because the two of you keep yelling that it is full of KIDS

You are both Wrong and I will continue to point it out every time one of you makes a ridiculous statement like.

"I walk through SUNEE, and I see underage boys everywhere"

Yawwwwwwwwwn.

Jou are a joke as a Poster and as a Moderator

I have to agree that I too have the impression that Icon seems to have a rather short fuse these days. But well.

As for Sunee. You cannot compare Central and Sunee, that's like apples and oranges. One is a shopping mall, happily frequented by most Thais. Sunee is an open air boy bordello, carefully avoided by most Thais.

Do you have a financial stake in Sunee somehow, Firecat? Otherwise, I cannot imagine why you would be blowing such a gasket.

I readily admit that my opinion was based on a visit six months ago. The opinions of those who have been there more recently should undeniably take precedence.

I will visit again soon, and sincerely hope you are correct about the area being cleared of prepubescent rent boys, glue sniffers, delinquents, and chicken hawking old men.

And Donatella, yes you have probably picked up on the fact that this forum doesn't really interest me much anymore. I will probably ask Keith to retire my log-in soon.

I have to report - Tom Yam has re-opened ! Assume same agenda as before - certainly I saw a few mature farangs going up the stairs :(

( I didn't go in so cant report further.)