This is a spin off of the recent Zika virus thread.

This is most probably a cultural trait if anything.

Relatively few guys here (central and west Europe) confess to being married and still fooling around with other dudes.

Sure, what happened at the HS/college stayed at college, but once you got married, and sort of turned str8 for all purposes you really did not tend to go back.

Is this a noticeable phenomenon in your environment?

Thanks!

KD

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From our Reviews both on the Sex Listings and the Escort site, there's definitely some men married to women who patronize adult bookstores, bathhouses, bars, etc. or who use cruising venues. Whether this is AGAIN, a continuing thing throughout a marriage, or a new exploration I don't know.

Beyond those reviews, there are regular news reports of scandals or brouhahas involving male politicians married to women who have male lovers, who are arrested in compromising positions, or who are using apps such as Grindr, Scruff, etc. The most prominent of these I can recall in recent years were former New Jersey Democratic Governor Jim McGreevey as well as the well publicized case of former Idaho Republican Senator Larry Craig. McGreevey is now divorced and has a male partner, obtained a Master's of Divinity, and now works counseling inmates and ex-offenders. Craig is still married to his wife but appears to have disappeared from public life.

There's also cases of unmarried male politicians involved in gay scandals or rumors, but those aren't specifically relevant to your question.

For those without scandals, in the most recent years, Democratic LGBT politicians have generally in most of the US been as open about their personal lives as straight politicians. Republican LBGT politicians tend to keep it hidden until after they leave office or whatever prominent position. For my non-partisan city council in suburban Houston, an openly gay man was elected to three consecutive terms in office, only forced out by term limits. Gay issues were not part of his campaigns but everyone knew publicly he was gay and had a partner who is now his husband.

In a separate venue, there was the scandal of Pastor Ted Haggard, head of a Colorado Springs megachurch and former head of the National Association of Evangelicals. He was accused by a male escort of having sex and using crystal meth together. Haggard initially denied but later admitted to buying meth; he denied the sexual contact and parts of the story were not proved factual or unfactual. Haggard lost his job and leadership positions, went through counseling, and remains married. Later allegations from other men were revealed a few years later.

Inasmuch as similar scandals keep popping up at national, state, and local levels involving conservatives and evangelicals - Joe.My.God publicizes most of them, and he is quite political; every couple months another Republican politician seems to pop up on a hookup app - I tend to think there's a good number of ordinary non-prominent men married to women who are indeed having sex with men in some place or situation. However, trying to quantify this doesn't seem likely to produce a reliable result.

~ Bob S.

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Thanks for the reply Bob.

Yup. I am familiar with some of the scandals you have mentioned here. I also tend to believe that the scandalous part had more to do with the conservative public personae vs. their somewhat relaxed private lives than the actual nature of the sexual relationships described in pertinent reports. I guess, the scandal was about moral hypocrisy here more than anything else.

The fact that such discoveries are still being branded as scandals even if only for displaying the hypocrisy of their presumed perpetrators probably indicates that the reporters and scandal-prone media want to see married men getting sexually involved with other men as something relatively rare, and hence, being worth called 'a scandal'.

I also agree that we have no means of quantifying the phenomenon in any reliable fashion here.

I was hoping that some of the members who may be married would come up and share some of their personal insights and stories.

KD

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Much of it also has to do with political and cultural seeking to "score points" and rally their followers, I think.

I agree! First-person stories and thoughts from regular people are much more interesting than anything filtered through the media.

I hope members will keep in mind that this is an anonymous forum and that it's possible to post here without compromising your privacy. Please feel free to share here.

Your Profile Page is programmed not to come up in search engines. When this happened years ago I made programming changes for Keith which so far seem to have been effective.

Also, you can keep your contact information private on your Profile Page and reveal as much or as little as you wish. Keith and I always encouraged people to use an email address that is not the same as the one you use for other more public parts of your life.

Also, if you have privacy concerns, please don't post photos of yourself that may possibly identify you. That was how the most recent app-related outings happened.

If you'd like to share your personal story but have privacy concerns I haven't addressed, please send me a Private Message and I'll reply as soon as I can.

~ Bob S.

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My information is totally observational -

Ranging from ABS where you see a lot of wedding rings (far from scientific proof, but...) to the numerous posts here, on CL and other "hook up" sites where you often see "My wife is out of town for 2 days...."

When there have been guys where I got to know them a bit better many of them have talked about how they may have "fooled around" as kids but gave it up when they got a girlfriend because "I am not gay" but now years later still think about those days.

I have also had one guy tell me how if he was growing up today - with the current level of acceptance - he would probably be gay - but when he was young that "was not an option".

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I was having precisely the same conversation couple of months ago with a guy whom I have known purely as a service supplier all these years. Since we have known each other for some 12 years now, we are trying to be sort of 'friends' not because we really are but because we think that this creates a good impression on the others.. I admit, I was taken aback by his informal confession over drinks before a business dinner.

Strange enough, he was perfectly comfortable with openly admitting that he was a conformist, and had really no regrets about it whatsoever. Those were the different times... These days he would be doing it very differently...

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It would be cool to get a a few more first-person stories here for those of us who simply are curious/inquisitive, and would love to know. None of us here is running any scientific study, and all we can hope for are observational findings, as John pointed out.

KD

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It was a different time with different expectations...

My buddy is very much the same. Fooled around with guys all his youth but after college got married, had kids, bought a house - the whole traditional package.

But now he admits that when he looks at porn it is mostly gay porn and told me that if he was growing up today with how much more accepted it is - he would "probably" go gay.

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The vibe I got from the guy I was mentioning in my previous posting was that he saw his life largely as a failure. He married a divorced woman with a kid, never had any kids of his own, had a successful career but now basically admits that he failed because in his day and time lacked the guts to do what he really wanted to do.

I understand the guys who once used to mess around with other dudes, but caved in to the call of conformism and chose the safer way of getting accepted. Now, if they go back to their old underground routine, and you obviously know about him, he ain't really breaking a major news to you.

For a dude who spent all his life being str8 only to blurt it all out to someone who is very disinterested, and hence blow up his cover for apparently no good reason, is what took me by surprise.

KD

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Here's an example from a review on the Escort site. The substance of the review isn't relevant to our discusion, but what the reviewer says about himself is another example of the types of cases we've been talking about.

It's revealing that what he finds might also be a type of companionship that he had "always wanted" and of course, someone to connect with on many levels, not just sexual, as a lonely widower.

A side note, most of the Escort site reviews are pretty much the same, a few are really hot and sexy and go into great detail, and some illuminate something about the psychology of reviewer, the escort, or both.

~ Bob S.

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I see where you are coming from.

The second review of the same escort is again very revealing, pretty much along the very same lines:

i am a businessman who travels frequently. I am in my early 40s, I guess average bi-guy, married and enjoy the company of a young men while traveling. I am a little out of shape but I think I am a handsome man for my age.

The widowed dude now apparently sees himself free to pursue his genuine sexual interests even at the rate stipulated.

The married bi-dude may very well be one of those men who rationalize their sex with other men as preserving the monogamous promise they gave to their wives. In their books 'cheating' would have to be done with females only. Having sex with another male like, 'does not count'?

KD

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Just a note, the part of the review I thought I had copied and pasted here is missing. My bad. I know I'm always in a rush these days. Here it is:

I am a 49 year old business man recently widowed and have always wanted to be with a younger man of my same status and knowledge and I found it in this one. I am very lonely now since my wife has passed away. Do yourself a favor and try Casey out at least once and I can assure you it won't be your last encounter with him. You will want to see him over and over, if not just to have a great conversation.

Thanks for adding the part from the second review! I do see quite a few of these. ~ Bob S.

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I have always found that a fascinating leap of logic - but have known a few guys that have totally believed it. Cheating would only be if it was with a woman - but fooling around with a guy - well that is just physical so it is not cheating....

But when we were kids we convinced ourselves it was not gay if we were only doing it because we did not have girl friends that put out....

So it is amazing what the mind can do to justify getting off!

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Mind can and will justify almost anything that it perceives as a vital self-interest.

Frankly, I sorta understand a college dude, hormones raging and all, who is willing to have his logic undertake any leap needed, so that he gets his rocks off, and carries on with this life as usual.

It takes a lot more empathy to understand a grown up, married dude, fully aware of the risks involved still believing that it is not cheating because he is not doing with a female??!

And it takes even more empathy and quite some good will to understand the wives who were promised absolute monogamy but shrug with their shoulders and say, 'it's the boys' thing... he is a good provider, takes care of me and the kids, so it does not matter.'

I'd be the last one to judge these guys, but yeah, the leap of logic is fascinating.

KD

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At that age logic goes out the window - guys are often just looking for a "justification" for their actions other that saying "I like sex with guys" - that would mean they were (oh my god) gay!

I had one buddy that I think every time we ever fooled around he would preface it with "Damn I am so horny! I wish there were some girls around...." I knew that within 10 minutes I would be getting my dick sucked - but it was not gay because he would have rather had a girl....






It is a strange leap of logic - but I have seen comments from more than one guy who has said his wife is not into sex anymore and does not care if he fools around as long as it is physical not emotional - so she is ok with him getting off with a guy because he will not fall in love - just sex.

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I have also come across married bisexual and even heterosexualcouples who agreed that their marriage was of open, polygamous kind.

There is seemingly every reason for a partner who does not want to have sex any more to let his other half experience it with someone else.

Yet, I see such cases as somewhat exceptional vs. a number of grown up, married, supposedly monogamous men who believe that having sex with other men does not constitute cheating... It's the boys' thing sorta thing...

I am not complaining at all. Simply find the leap of logic so huge that hardly any logic applies...

KD

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