-- In another thread the rights and wrongs of SENSO MASSAGE with its MINIMUM TIPS. policy has been discussed.
- TWINKS MASSAGE is another massage parlor with a similar policy: it's just 700.Bh. there, I believe;
- addr.: Soi Naras Thiwat 1., (aka. Soi Anuman.),
Bang rak, BKK. 10500.;
- loc'n.: between NATURE BOYS and the GOLDEN COCK a go-go bars..

-- Now, thanks to info. in the flg. web-site -

Shamelessmack in Thailand and around

I u'stand. that JUPITER 2002 MAN CLUB.* has a present 'off.' fee of 400.Bh. and a MINIMUM TIP. of 1,500.Bh. to the boi, (possibly this includes a payment to the M'san.?),.

-* addr.: Thaniya soi 2.,
Tnn. suriwong, Khet Bang rak, BKK. 10500.;
- loc'n.: besides SURIWONGSE HTL.;
- BTS./MRT.: Sala Daeng,(S2.)/Silom or Sam Yan;
- tel.: (02)-237 4050.;
- web: none.

-- E&OE.. -- Bibi. --

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I don't know much about Jupiter, but in general if someone were to open a bar that consistently and reliably offered a higher quality of service, both in terms of the attractiveness of the boys and their performance/behavior, I would think that could be a good thing even if it meant higher fees and minimum tips.

Although charges and minimum tips at massage places like Hero are relatively high, I would rather travel some distance by Skytrain and pay the higher amounts there knowing that the boys were attractive and there was no doubt what was on offer. Spending 1/3 the amount at a cheaper place where the majority of boys were unattractive & inept, hoping that I might get lucky is to me a false economy and a gamble.

Likewise, if some go-go or host bar charged higher fees (or maybe a membership charge) and had a minimum tip AND the boys were well trained to satisfy the customers, the boys there would probably be better compensated and, like Hero, they would probably have a steady clientele of resident farang and locals. I know the supposition made was that it was just greedy mamasans, but in most bars the mamasan gets a kick-back from the boys. If the Mamasans are simply greedy for no reason, then business will suffer.

When this topic was raised somewhere else I seem to recall someone saying that the minimum only applied to customers they did not know and was set to provide some protection for the boys.
The report that I read about Jupiter made it sound like the boys were arrogant, had very high opinions of themselves and were poor performers once off’d. I used to read similar comments about Tawan, although I never found it to be true. Reports like this can be a good starting point especially for newbies, but I quite often find the reality to be quite different from what was reported.

If I get to Bangkok later this week as planned, I may pay Jupiter a visit to see what it’s like and maybe others could also post their experiences here. The more reports made the better the chance they will present an accurate assessment.

If it takes higher fees and minimum tips to get a higher standard of service, I’m all for it. The tourists and bargain shoppers can search for cheap drinks and mind-numbing sexy shows elsewhere, and those who are willing to spend a bit more might have an alternative venue.

If Jupiter’s boys simply have a bloated opinion of themselves for no reason, that would be a shame, but how have they managed to stay in business so long (I think I’ve heard the name for years??) if they aren’t providing what people want?

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Over the last 2 years I have offed 4 boys from Jupiter. They have all been extremely good looking and useless in bed. Since I normally pay 1500 baht , I cannot comment on their minimum charge.

I am 62 and heavy and they all made me feel that way. That Bar will never get a dimes worth of my business.

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-- Agreed in general.
- But TIPs. should be at the customers' discretion and not some mandatory figure laid-down by mngmnt.; especially - as is rumored for JUPITER 2002. - if the M'sans. take their rake-off!
- http://www.shamelessmack.wordpress.com has some words about JUPITER 2002. on his web-pages.
-- Bibi. --

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But I know of some other bars (obviously I cannot state what percentage of all bars) where the mamasan get kick-backs from the boys. As I mentioned when I spoke of Cartier in Pattaya, ALL the boys who get off'd MUST pay the mamasan a set amount. In other bars I'm sure it's at least those boys who the mamasan promotes to customers who must in turn pay the mamasan something.

In the article the comment that this decision was based on greedy mamasans was pure speculation, so let's not elevate it to a position of fact. That sort of thing is best left to discussions of WMD and the Bush Administration.

Certainly some of the many massage places you've visited have minimum tips. Personally I would only go to a place like Hero or Senso where a minimum tip seemed justified by a nearly certain expectation of what you're getting.

I'm definitely not promoting Jupiter or defending their staff. If they are indeed as pushy and arrogant as a number of people suggest, then they may well implode on their greed & over-inflated egos.

I still think, in theory at least, that a truly upscale host bar operation that charged more because it provided a better quality of service would be welcome.

The concept appears to work for some of the massage places. There's still plenty of business for the lesser places.

I have been fortunate in finding some great guys in the various bars. I have a regular long term friend as well as some regular "occasional visitors" who I found in bars and now call on the phone when I want to see them. Once in awhile I get the urge for someone new, but I really dislike the search process, i.e. the tedious viewing of dispirited boys on stage in their underwear, the "what your name,""where you come from," and all that. When the urge for someone new comes to me, I'd like to eliminate as much of the hit-and-miss gogo bar shuffle as possible.If there were one or two high quality venues where success was more likely, I'd be willing to pay extra for the experience. If I never had to walk into another typical gogo bar again, I'd be quite happy... or at least if I didn't have to wander through a succession of them looking for the elusive champion amongst a field of also-rans.

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The above reply is a little ambiguous concerning staff at Jupiter.In my opinion the mamasans and waiters are not pushy and arrogant.The boys and dancers may be a different story and I guess this is what you meant.

On past visits the low level of sales pressure and pleasant attitude of staff make it a reason to return and buy drinks and have fun.This is one reason why Jupiter continues to be succesful.

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I was chatting to an ex-Jupiter boy the other day who told me he had left because the bar is owned by the wife of a prominent policeman and he doesn't like the police.

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I agree about poor service by the working boys at Jupiter.

On two different occasions I've offed boys indicating that I wanted them to come to my condo, but when we got outside they headed for the short time rooms at Suriwongse. When I said repeated that I wanted them to come to my condo they both said they had to be back inside Jupiter within 20 minutes or they would get punished. And not really polite.

On both occasions I immediately told each boy that I no longer wanted their services, both indicated that they wanted a large tip, this all happening with just three or four minutes after leaving their premises. On both occasions I refused.

On the second occasion I went back and spoke to the captain, and asked whether the '20 minutes' concept was true (which I knew anyway was not true), the answer was of course 'never mind', further requests for a clear answer just got further 'never mind' , plus some nasty side comments to the other staff about the stupid farang.

Definitely off my list as a place to take boys but I will agree that they do usually have some cute and hot young men.

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While I am normally sceptical about occasional negative comments made about a bar, it does seem a lot of people find the boys at Jupiter to be physically attractive but that the overall experience is pretty bad.

Too bad that that rather important element is absent. Again comparing to Hero, which has a fairly hefty minimum, but which I realize operates differently from a gogo bar, the service provided seems to generate almost 100% positive comments and the few times I've been there they certainly had plenty of business.

If Jupiter and its staff are making good money, then they must be doing something right. Maybe it attracts more Thai or Asian customers and/or younger men who the boys prefer??

Otherwise eventually natural selection should eliminate the business. Pride indeed goeth before a fall.

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I offed an extremely nice and friendly guy from one of the smaller bars the other day. He told me of one customer who recently booked him for a whole day. They met at 9:00 am, had sex and then the boy had to spent most of the day acting as a guide whilst they visited Wat Phra Keo, the Grand Palace, six other temples and goodness knows what else. They finished with more sex around 7:00 pm, after which he was given a tip of 1,200 Baht. When the customer came in to the bar a day later, none of the boys would go out with him - and quite right too!

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Brief comment on Jupiter. Selected a boy from the line up.. just bought him a drink... mamasan approached "You off boy yes?"..... me " yang mai ruu.. I'll chat to him first thank you" Mamasan .. "you off him now or I take to other customer" ... Me "f*ck off." Never returned.

On minimum tips.. I've never had the problem.. but, (and I feel so stupid over the whole exercise) last week in BKK went in to watch show at X -Boys (ground floor). Mid show, mamasan Judy who knows me well brings a boy over (fully clothed) and asks if he can sit with me as I'm alone? (This is called inertia selling and was an unexpected first for me). Anyway the boy looks cute, so (stupidly) I agree and buy him a 250 bt drink. He turns out to be Khun Wen (mentioned in another post) who is a part time DJ part time coyote boy. He asks me to off him and having had one beer too many , I agree.... forgetting that his off fee is 500bt because of his higher status, plus 500bt for 2 drinks, plus 100bt tip for Judy..Back in the room I find he is extremely hairy from the belly button down (which is a turn off for me) so the sex was less vigourous than usual, and only lasts about 45 mins. He dresses, I give him a "short time 1,000 bt, and he says "I've not eaten tonight. I want 1,500 bt" As it happened I was down to my last 200 bt in cash so I gave it to him , told him that was it, and bundled him out. This is the first time I've experienced a mamasan bringing me a boy without any prior discussion, or had a boy tell me (after the event) that he has a minimum price. Returned to Pattaya the next day.

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Yes, I was thinking about making a trip to Bangkok, but after reading some of these messages, I think I'll save the expense and stay in Pattaya.

My friend is here now anyway, but even when he leaves I think Dong Tan beach, a visit to Smart massage and maybe a look in at a few bars I've not visited in a long time will do. If the boys and mamasans in Bangkok are becoming such pains in the butt, who needs that? And who needs to pay more for the chance to be hassled?

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I think some places set minimums because some customers pay too little, perhaps due to their ignorance of the prevailing market rate.

Bars such as Tawan and Jupiter seem to draw many critiques. Are there bars that consistently provide good service?

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-- Possibly many of these Thai or Asian visitors are either first timers, (and so, being unaware, are prepared to pay the drinks' charges, the off fee PLUS the asked for TIP.), or have MORE money at their disposal than some of us contributors to this thread?
-- Bibi. --

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I have visited nearly every bar in Bangkok and Pattaya over the past two years.

Bangkok bars are becomimg a real turn off for me from the arm grabbing touts to the boring shows and pushy mamasams and as the economy declines the prices keep rising. The tips paid should be at the discretion of the client detirmined by the quality of the services provided. It is fair for the mamasam to give a newbie a guideline but not demand a large fee. I have had some great sex with boys from the go go bars and others that were not worth a 1500 baht fee.

After my first visit to Pattaya I thought that I would never return but now it is my favourite playground. I can sit and relax in most bars like Funny Boys without anyone pushing me to off boys or buy drinks. Sunnee Plaza is a nice place to have a drink and relax with the boys at an outside bar. I now have four boys in Pattaya that are happy to go to discos or shows with me, they have never ripped me off and I look after them accordingly. They have become friends more than paid employees.

I will pay for the service provided and not what a greedy mamasam demands. It is all a learning exercise for me but I wish the Bangkok bars could understand that they are losing what couild be long term customers. If only there was a Happy Boys/Crazy Dragon (Nature Boy is not in that class of bar) or X Ray/Dave Man Club in Bangkok to liven up the place.

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