The Slate published the following article:

Gay aging: Study says internalized gay ageism affects gay men as they get older.

Frankly, I fail to see any significant difference between aging when it comes to str8 and gay men, despite the frequently touted (in UK terms) gay guys' obsession with the ideals of youth.

Say, you are in your late 50's, early 60's. You want to date in your peer group. Str8 or gay, no one will find this particularly difficult, traumatic, or even worth mentioning.

Now, the same person of any sex in their 50's or 60's wants to date someone in their 20's? Well, this is may get a bit complicated, costly, and, yeah, people will talk... Gay or str8. It is pretty naive to believe that a gorgeous looking 23 year old girl/boy will go for someone in his late 50's or early 60's without ANY reason. At times, the reason is financial security, much better lifestyle, expensive gifts, and foreign travel, to mention the few. At times, the younger person is looking for a daddy figure, regardless of the sexual orientation of the players involved.

And, more often than not, life does not bend itself to please these pigeon-hole kinds of classifications: it is a mix of many things, including money, privilege, networks, daddy-syndrome, breaking the glass ceiling, etc.

KD

Quote |

It is true - you will see it for gay or for straight. I think it may get noticed more in the gay situation because of the growth of online hook up sites.

Now you see it in print and it makes it more dramatic.

I love the ads on CL "60 years old, 300 pounds, missing most of my teeth and have tuberculous looking for 20 year old gym fanatic with large cock" (OK - well maybe that is a slight exaggeration).

But it is funny how you will see guys whose ads basically exclude anyone who is like they are. Sure everyone would love to get the hot college guy - but unless you have something special to offer (money mostly) it is not going to happen when you are in your 50's.

When I watch porn do I want to see a bunch of middle age guys with a bit of a paunch? Hell no. But if I am looking to actually hookup I have no problem with someone who is showing he has been around the track a few times - because I know when I look in the mirror I am no longer 20 myself.

Quote |

The notion of exceptionalism has been gaining ground in many aspects of life. Sometimes, there is something good about it. And, at times, not so

Gay folks around here seem to be believe that much of their 'suffering' at later stages of their lives has to do with the fact that they are NOT straight. See, the gay guys are obsessed with youth, looks, and buffed bodies, etc.

Few of them will ever admit that a str8 50+y.o. who wishes to date a str8 20 y.o. needs to dig deep in his/her pockets and have his/her Ferrari waxed pretty often, too.

Youth is at a premium these days, and so are ripped bodies among men, and very svelte bodies among women.

Whatever your sexual orientation may be, if you go for the top and premium, there is always a top, premium price to be paid.

So, frankly, I see no discrimination here.

It is what it is, and it hits pretty much everyone in the same way.

KD

Quote |

"Youth is wasted on the young" is attributed to George Bernard Shaw although some people think it came from Oscar Wilde. It's an interesting thought.

I didn't have much interest in youth even when I was young. Someone told me once in my teen years I was "Fourteen going on forty."

In my twenties, young, attractive, contacts instead of thick glasses, big basket and my 501s showed it, I preferred older guys, 30s, 40s, 50s, because many of them had intelligence and wit and were able to treat me as an equal, "not just another piece of meat" to use the cliche. I was well-educated and in grad school and I had a lot more important things going on than what was on the surface. The ones who saw only a handsome twink edging into the leather scene never interested me and sometimes repulsed me. There was a guy I tricked with several times who got annoyed that I couldn't meet him because I was studying for an exam; he never called me again. That was the same one who'd said, "You look great but if you worked out you'd be really hot!" That was a clue if I ever heard one.

Basically, I did not just want to get off, I wanted a sense of connection. That could be just for a short time, a few hours, a night, a few weeks, or longer, but there had to be something personal in it. The exception was going to the sexclubs or parties where one abandoned self and entered the bacchanalia with few or no restraints.

Now at 54, the same thing applies except that I'm much more constrained by time, energy, work, being a full-time caregiver, and so much more. The apps are not a place for me, I want the look in the eyes and the body language and the tone of voice to make a connection. So, in those very rare times that I can and do go out looking I'd be looking for a "real person," reasonably close to my age within 10 or 15 years or so (but who knows, I don't really care) and where that sense of connection exists, however temporary. Quality time, especially in my current situation, is most important.

Of course, I've also always accepted that I'm an eccentric outlier. Maybe that's a different type of "exceptionalism" but it's a class of one that people have placed me in from childhood that I've lived with all my life. I'm speaking only of my experience, not anything general.

~ Bob

Quote |

I always thought that what described here was the most general default.

I went cruising for sex, and wanted to hook up with a guy for sex. This would only work if we found each other attractive, AND if we managed to establish a sense of trust and connection that would make it worth our while to go through the notions of going to his place or mine, chatting along, and generally developing the feeling of being at least, comfortable in each other's company. There had to be quite a bit of basically harmonious interaction.

Now, if you went to the spa, saw a hot dude on his knees waiting, and a multitude of naked men walking around, you dispensed with everything else, had sex there and then, and moved on. You probably never exchanged a word, since such places and such contexts were really not meant for socializing.

What made you a bit of an outlier here is probably your frankness to admit that even as a college guy, you sought contacts with 'older men'. The default is the peer group.

Most of the younger, usually college guys who seek contacts with more mature men, claim that their m2m (s)experience within their peer group was only partially satisfying. The sex may have been good, but all the other exchange stalled. Once the deed was done, both guys moved on to their next targets, making their previous experience somewhat meaningless. The 'more of the same' cliche comes to mind here.

KD

Quote |

Honestly, there were a few guys my age who I was attracted to and one I dated for a couple months. He was in law school, I was studying International Relations, and we were both in Dignity. a large community of gay and lesbian Catholics in DC.

I think a lot of the young guys like me who were just exploring our sexuality and also so focused on education and career were naive: We knew who we wanted but other than seeing some porn magazines or whatever, didn't always know what to do or the actual "mechanics" and protocol involved. We had reached the gay scene through a different entrance than the guys who started out in the bars, the streets, in undergrad, or whatever. Being that intellectually focused plus the religious component, guys like us found a way to put all the pieces together in this group, the Espiscopalian Integrity group, and so on. (Although some of what I heard about what went on in seminaries could fill a book...)

Sidebar: I can add that at that time, early- to mid-1980s, there were quite a few gay priests either assigned to DC-based organizations or studying in DC who found it a place of refuge away from the oversight and eyes of the local bishop wherever they had come from. The had more freedom, weren't "being watched" as closely as they would have been in their home diocese, and were able to behave differently, speak more freely, and so on. They were in the baths, the dance clubs, the leather bars, etc., and were living private and sexual lives just like other gay men. Whether lay or cleric, we told each other, "The Church changes in centuries, not in years" and simply lived our lives while we waited. That all changed with a late-1980s crackdown by then Cardinal Ratzinger, later Pope Benedict. After that, some started a sort of "faithful dissent," still intellectual and sort of political, even as the priests and professors were disciplined or disavowed by the Church and our groups across the US were expelled from Catholic facilities. In time, I left the Church and so did many others. I might call myself a "pious agnostic" now (borrowing that phrase from a lesbian theologian) though I'd rather not have a label. Many of my old friends are either similar, became Episcopalian, or joined some other denomination.

Back to the mid-1980s story: Having "arrived," we younger guys could sort of fumble around with each other or we could hook up with some really attractive older guys, both physically and on the points of personality and character, who also were well experienced, sensitive, and knew exactly what to do. They taught us by example. Choosing the older guys was often a better choice, although I certainly do regret some opportunities both with guys my age and with older ones that I passed up. Sometimes I look back and think "what if?" but that's water under the bridge.

~ Bob

Quote |