My name is Peter Deep and I am the majority owner of The Zone. I've been following many of the posts on this site. As many of you know, The Zone had a fire in 1998 and recently reopened in Sept. 2000. When we were rebuilding, many of the posts on this board and LOTS of email through our web site said the same thing: don't allow Asians in. (I couldn't help but wonder what any Asians reading the posts were thinking.) Now that we're open, I see people complaining about the presence of Asians at The Zone even now. I have to ask: What makes their presence so offensive to some people?

As a person who is a member of a discriminated minority (I'm gay), I must say I have had a really hard time understanding this. I'm not putting anyone down. The reason I am posting this is to begin a discussion that may further my understanding of this obviously important issue.

Several years ago, I met over lunch with two owners of one of the sex clubs in town. The subject for discussion was whether or not we wanted to honor each club's membership at the other. (This was my suggestion.) The response I was received that yes, that would be fine, as soon as I banned all Asians from the club because their club did not allow Asians. I couldn't do that with a clear conscience, so that was the end of that. When one of the men at the meeting was later voted as "Man of the Year" by the Gay & Lesbian Center, I began to question just how deep this feeling went within the gay community. Obviously this person's views were widely accepted. Still, I couldn't bring myself to ban an entire race. It IS illegal, for one thing. Shortly thereafter, the Vortex opened and they joined the other clubs in the policy that if an Asian came to their door, they were denied entry and promptly redirected to The Zone. Our Asian membership increased for obvious reasons - there was actually a club where Asians could go - and white flight ensued. The other clubs weren't doing us a favor by sending business our way - it was obviously an intent to harm my business, and harm it it did. Which only serves to prove my point. I didn't care to operate my business as a "niche" business, only catering to one race "and their admirers" and it was an uphill battle to regain a desired ethnic mix, where anyone felt comfortable. This eventually happened.

I just read a post by berlinzer (or something like that) who was responding to a post by someone who actually liked The Zone and said that Asian faces didn't bother him. Berlinzer responded that just because he didn't want to have sex with Asians didn't mean he was prejudiced. I don't know this guy and maybe I'm speaking out of turn, but this response seemed rather defensive and it seems this person just doesn't like being in the same room as an Asian. Certainly, when you go to a sex club you are not required to have sex with everyone who's there! Yet, he avoids places where Asians are and feels entirely justified in saying so, and doesn't consider his viewpoint as discrimination at all. (I disagree.) I don't want to single this guy out, but point out that his opinion is shared by a lot of men who frequent sex clubs. Therefore, I have some questions and I would really like some honest answers. As I said, I am trying to understand this.

Do you guys think that sex clubs should bar Asians? Some Asians? Most Asians? What would be the reasons for this?

Do you consider barring Asians from sex clubs as discrimination? Is it justified discrimination? Do you patronize other businesses that you know to discriminate against other races or by sexual orientation? Is it okay for some to discriminate but not others?

Is barring Asians from sex clubs not discrimination at all, but simply a good practice? Because the sex clubs are private membership clubs, do you think they have the right to allow/refuse membership along lines of race, age, or weight, and should exercise that right? Were you even aware that some sex clubs may not be allowing Asian members, or did you think that the absence of Asians was just coincidence - or the Asians' choice? If you knew this to be true (it is), would it make a difference to you as a customer? How so? Would it entice you to patronize that business or prevent you from doing so? Or would it make no difference?

I am really looking forward to a healthy discussion, hopefully not one-sided one way or the other. I AM NOT pointing any fingers anywhere nor placing any fault, nor urging anyone to patronize or not patronize any one place. This ever-present complaint and topic intrigues me.

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www.thezonela.com

You cater to asians?!?!?!?
You just got a new customer.
I happen to really like asian guys, hispanic guys too. Don't forget White guys, and black guys. Gotta LOVE those native American guys! OH HELL, I just LOVE guys!!
Next thing I know, they will be sending away guys over 40!!
Its all about preferences. I have them, you do too. Just respect others and their feelings. Its ok not to be attracted to a certain Type but there is no reason to mean about it.

Dear Peter,

I am glad that you have finally made the effort to enquire from the public what their opinions are on this latent topic.

Firstly, I do agree with many of the sex club goers and you, sex club owners, in limiting asians coming into your clubs. The main reason being that some asians go to sex clubs not to have sex or engage in any sexual activities but for the curiosity and the fun of voyeurism. They normally bunch together in a group, peering curiosly at others while they are seriously engaging in their fun, and giggle at the sight of some activities they might find funny. This is an extremely disturbing and irritating behavior especially to those who are trying hard to "do it" with someone!

Before I state the other side of my opinion, I must first admit that I am too an asian.

Now for the other side of the argument. You should not and cannot stop any asian or any person of any race from entering your club because it is a dicriminatory factor and it is against the law. Another point is that NOT all asians are like the above, like myself. I frequent sex clubs in LA for the sex and to go for the thrill of anonymous sex in your clubs. I do find that sex clubs are the few places where I can really let go and have fun!

I used to frequent your club, The Zone, until I was also barred from entering and renewing my membership. I must say that at first I was really pissed! Not until I have heard the other side of the story (which is my first reason), then I did agree, to a certain extend, to your intent.

Now, coming back to the main point. I must say that any private establishment does has its right to their prefered customers; like in your case, asians. All I have to suggest is that you should continue to open your doors to everyone but just keep an open eye on those (of any race) who might be coming into your clubs for a "funny" time instead.



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....To a degree, I do understand why some guys don't want Asians in the clubs. However, you cannot really generalize. It's not fair. (It really bothers me that I sort of agree too.)

I'm Filipino who grew up in the Philippines. Back there, they are not as much (not as much) sensitive towards PC. It's really not everybody, but it's there. I grew up hearing abusive jokes about all other Asians (except Filipinos). But then, Filipinos discriminated against other Filipinos also. 7 major languages, 32 dialects.....7 major cultures......immigrants. Pale skinned, dark skinned. Spanish-Filipinos, Chinese-Filipinos.

(What are we, then? This group of islands wasn't a country before Spain went there and named it after King Philip IV.)

I'm one of those total sluts. I've had sex with all kinds. I meet different people everyday. ........'Can't really generalize.

During the Basic Plumbing days, I've seen Filipino groups be loud and giggly, I've seen some other Asian groups be loud and giggly, I've seen some Hispanic groups be loud and giggly, and I've seen some Italians be loud and giggly. (Sorry if I weren't able to mention all of them....but they're the only ones that I've heard.)

The "loud and giggly" thing is DEFINITELY an issue and it's embarrassing that although I've seen other kinds of people do it, most of the time it's people who look like me who are doing it. Somebody should go around these places and kick these people out (for the evening). They probably don't even know it's unattractive.

But don't kick me out because I look like them. I don't do that kinda thing.

It is a fact that over 95% of the pickpockets at the zone and other now defunct sex clubs have been asian!!! It is also a fact that most of them have small 'thumb sized' penises.Can somebody please tell me what is that horrible garlic smell that so many of them give off? Pushiness, rudeness, hogging glory stalls, interferring with other guys who are messsing around, giggling, talking very loud, etc. The large influx of asians at the tomkat virtually drove away all the under 40 nice looking, attractive inshape caucasians! This topic has been regularly discussed on this message board and continually creates controversy. We must rationally discuss what asians do that continually irritates so many of us that other groups do not. Hopefully, cries of racism & bigotry and that damned political correctness will not enter this thread. Please tell me why so many asians are dying their hair blond or having a surgical procedure to make that eyes appear less slanted???

Well, i will put my two cents in. I believe discrimination is wrong. However, there are stereotypes for a reason,not everyone fits them, but many do. I work out at a gym with many asians, young and old, i observe how their customes are different than american, and I can certainly see why many would be repelled by them. This does not only apply to asians, as many immigrants have diffent views on what is appropiate, such as personal space and cleaninness. I would only expect from a sex club owner to watch for innapropiate conduct that bothers the majority of the visitors, then stop it from happening. By the way, i am a latin immigrant myself, i will however, not discuss myself personally, as i think it is useless to the discussion.

Don't kick me out because I look like them. I don't do that kinda thing.

Yikes! this kind of talk coming from a community that constantly faces discrimination?...how truly frightening this is...so now that it seems justifiable in the eyes of some to exclude Asians, maybe we can add gropers, lookey loos, stall hoggers, gigglers, drug users, condom users, barebackers, shavers, hairy guys, slim guys, fat guys, muscular guys, HIV+ guys, HIV- guys,Leather Men, Drag Queens, steroid users, men of any race other than Asian, guys who take it up the ass, guys who don't, simple minded Bigoted truck drivers, smokers, non smokers, drinkers, non drinkers,guys who only play with guys but claim to be BI...face it we will always be able to find someone that we don't like, get over it and if you don't like the clientele somewhere ..GO SOMEWHERE ELSE!

JayinLa is right. I had apparently tried to discuss myself personally and it is useless.

Your business should be run the way you want it run. Do whatever it takes to keep the business as profitable as possible.

My only concern with asians at the sex clubs is with them driving there. Now that's a scary thought then them laughing and starring at u having sex!

the vortex did not discriminate against asians - i know - i worked there - they discriminated against clothes, perfume, queeny behavior - not only did we not in asians - we did not let in whites, blacks , latins - does this mean we discriminated against them too ? no - we had many asian members who LOOKED - DRESSED - WALKED - TALKED AND ACTED LIKE MEN - do not blame ur bad business management agianst the Vortex -

Well, now lets take a look at this question from the businessmans side.I too am in business, and it is my understanding that it is against both Ferderal, and State laws to discriminate against any person for ANY reason.

Now that doesn't mean that if some joker comes into your place of business, and causes problems that you can't kick there ass out. BUT under the law if he comes back the very next day he must be admitted.

I have lived in the Greater Los Angeles area for almost forty years, and have seen so many business close there doors because of this attitude of discrimination for one reason or another.

When are we going to learn that having a Gay Community means ALL INCLUSIVE regardless of Color, Race, or Creed. and that includes Big, Small, Old, and Young.

Is your dance card full yet?



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The Older the Violin, the sweeter the music
6'2" Br/Blue 6.5-7" uncut

"Can't we...um...can't we just all get along"

LOL!

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27, 5'8, 170, blk/brn, cute asian jock bro, sex-it's all good!

how disappointing it is to read some of these posts, which are absolutely inappropriate and appalling. what's wrong with you people? first, THINK hard about what you say, what you feel and why you feel the way that you do. if you do and you're honest with yourself, you'll certainly recognize that your remarks are racist and grounded in ignorance, fear, and/or plain old meanness.
it is WRONG to generalize about asians, despite the behavior of some asian's at the zone. do you recognize when men of other background's exhibit the same behavior? or how about when asian's do NOT exhibit behavior you find offensive? and i'll bet you don't notice the offensive behavior that YOU and others of your same racial/ethnic background exhibit.

regarding whether asian's should not be allowed in the ZONE, of course they should be allowed!! if you find an individual's behavior offensive, stop being such a coward and tell them (politely if they're being polite to you; rudely if they're being rude to you), rather than whining about it and allowing an individual's behavior to develop into a stereotype which then foments hatred.
why do you choose to live this way? to expend your energy on being negative. again, i'm sure that if you think about it, you'll come up with some answers.

finally, some of you should be ashamed of yourselves for the racist feelings you're expressing and for thinking it's ok to express them (which i suppose has something to do with the anonymity of this mode of communicating). i hope that there are only a few of you out there who think and behave this way.

to the other, whom i hope are the majority... those who are honorable, brave and strong... thank you for doing the right thing and please know that who you are and what you do is appreciated. feel good about that!!

Peter you are a bussinessman you have a great deal of money invested in you business, It's
first priority should be to justify your investment, then to provide jobs and lively hoods to people. It is not the job of the state or federal govt or anyone to tell you who you can cater your business too. You should be appluded for asking these question, and making us think about something other than our cocks. In the end you will have to make a decision on who is my target audience.

We do have a free will if we donot like your audience then we do not have to patronize you.