That's interesting. I hadn't thought the RC and more conservative parts of anywhere would condone out-of-wedlock offspring....oh well, live and learn.

To return to the original topic, I am going to try my darndest to come to BKK in April so I'd really appreciate more news about the safety situation there.

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I feel a lot safer anywhere in Thailand than in countries that have offended Al-Kaihda ! I think BKK has to be one of the safest cities in the world to visit. The red shirts have officially eschewed violence as a strategy & recent demos have been extremely peaceful. No worries mate !

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-- Even during the Songkran Festival?

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Especially during Songkran. The whole city empties out.
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-- YES! Onto Si Lom rd. in the vicinity of Soi Four!
- Some left the Kingdom for good - 361 road-deaths and 3,516 rd.-accidents: source BKK. Post. 'paper., 19 apr 10.. :-(

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Songkhran! How could I forget my absolute favouritest festival!!!! ow, if only I manage to persuade my last client to go home before the 10th, I might just manage to get a room in either Pattaya or Phuket or Koh Samui from the 12th to the 17th of April but Bangkok would be good, too - I've never celebrated Songkhran in the Big B before! And Lord knows I deserve a really rowdy holiday this year.

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Re your comment about mamasans, captains, owners having no idea what there staff can 'do'.

I recall a couple of years back a story about a farang who was offed a man from Dreamboys bar, and the man refused to give any form of service whatever (so the story goes). He went back and confrointed the shorter German owner and demanded his money back.

The German refused to refund and said : 'we run an introduction service and nothing more, and we have no responsibility whatever after the introduction is made'.

Because of this attitude of owners / managers, and because (I believe) you can't trust anything mamasans will tell you (often their only consideration is which boy to recommend to get the highest commission), I repeat my recent comment; I politely discuss in detail what I want direct with the man, and if needed I tell the mamasan /captain to disappear, and if the man doesn't give a clear yes to my requirements, then I politely and quickly end the discussion, and in most cases give him 100Baht for his time.

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XFUN! Thanks for your comment, was beginning to think my post was written in invisible ink as yours was the first to directly reply to it.

Agree with your reply - I was merely stating the sad fact that things have deteriorated to this level. I was making a comparison as to how things operated in the bars years ago and the money hungry ways they are now. I still hate having that kind of a discussion altho it is almost necessary nowadays in view of the prevelant attitude of the employees and the owners and mama-sans who will almost always tell you 'He will do everything". Sure, and Pigs do fly!!!

I was in a bar in Saphan Kwai recently and one of the employees there told me they must do everything within reason if they have a customer - none of that 'I don't do this or i don't do that". The owner told them flat out that they must, or go look elsewhere for employment.

Again, I must comment as in my previous post, if they don't want to engage in most everything, get out of the bar business or go work in a lady bar if they are such a man! And before someone makes a comment, I am not referring to activities outside of the normal range to most patrons.

As for the owner/whatever at Dreamboys, he has always had an attitude towards his customers, so much so that none of my friends here in Bangkok will go to any of his facilities. I am sure he does not miss our money since he charges astronomical fees for everything and has a sign outside his bar saying they do not use 'touts'. Possibly he should look up the definition of the word tout as he has more than his share of them outside of his places. Unfortunatley, his raising of his prices has caused the other bars on the soi to do the same, but judging by the numbers of foreign customers that go there in large groups, he probably has a connection with a tour outfit of some kind. If he had to depend on the locals and small amount of tourists as the other bars do, he would have a problem but the other bar owners cannot see this so quite often you see only one or two customers in the other bars, mostly because they want to charge almost the same fees as DreamBoys. The locals never seem to get it, you get more customers by lowering your prices and giving good service, not by raising raising them!

I will give him credit for being reasonably good to his employees insofar as their emergency health or 'no money' problems. This coming from several of the guys that I know who work for him but I have no knowledge as to his pay scale in comparison to other bars. Too bad he cannot learn what the definition of 'customer relations' is - but then T.I.T.! That seems to be a lost art in many countries, but moreso here in the Land of Smiles!

PM me, if you wish, and I can feel free to discuss one or more places that seemingly are going downhill completely after many years (more than 10) of running good places.

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Dear Asians4me,

There's another angle which is part of this scenario, always has been and is specific to the Thai way of life / Thai hierachical social structure / expectations in relation to the Thai version of master / servant relationships / the 'Power gap' and how that relates to levels of 'fear / support of the boss'.

I'm talking about the concept of accountability. In fact I have a small team of Masters degree students researching it right now (it has already been researched many times before specific to Thailand, the students know that, and their task is to gather the data again, anlayse it and see if they can find further insights, or a trend change).

To cut the story short, it's well proven that in general (in Thai, and in other cultures too of course) employees under a managerial level see that they are not responsible for anything. When questioned they will typically say 'I am just an employee here, I just do as I'm told, the boss is the person who is responsible / accountable, not me'.

And further, but connected, is the expectation from employees that 'the boss will protect me' and this also connects to 'power manipulation by the boss', and 'employee protection of the boss', e.g. employees telling lies about the circumstances of a car accident(1)to 'support' the boss. And in the old ways of thinking, this is not seen as wrong (by employees).
(1) But of course not only in Thailand.

In reality there is some evidence that Thai employees in more professional / contracted employment are gradually realizing that they are also accountable and hence the slow but sure acceptance of 'reward for different levels of performance' (and this is related to the developing desire for a career path, which in older times was almost unknown, and would be seen as arrogant (and in worst case, 'employees should just do as they are told and accept whatever comes or doesn't come their way').

However the typical employee in a bar e.g. mamsans, captains, etc., are still very much locked into the historical (unconscious) ways of thinking about this and will tell as many lies as the boss indicates (and of course their are other reasons - commissions - which snuggly fit into this overall package of behaviors), plus working boys (in a bar scenario) show the same deference to the mamasan and the captain.

Also related is the lack of information sharing with employees often at even high levels of management. e.g. Talk to employees in many Thai businesses and ask them about customer satisfaction etc., and they will very often genuinly be totally lacking in knowledge of 'customer satisfaction indicators'. And this connects back to deferance for the boss. e.g suddenly the employee deserts the customer to make sure the boss is comfortable, has a glass of water etc.

You can find places of employement where the boss still deliberately generates putting himself/herself up on a pedestal (because they enjoy the attention / because it's 'normal', but you can also now find more and more places of employment (more likely of course in mainstream business) where employees have been educated to see 'customer satisfaction' as their first priority (but in many cases, new employees in this picture initially have great pain to reduce their total deference to the boss).

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As I have recounted many times in this forum, my experiences with the go-go bars and their people whether they be in Bangkok, Pattaya, or Phuket have mostly been good ones. Dreamboys has been especially good - I think it has had the best talent for the last several months.

Maybe it is because I am known by many of the mamasans that I get good service. I am told that I have "a good heart", so maybe that helps. I usually am accompanied by my streetwise Thai boyfriend and that definitely helps. Sometimes I bring other visitors with me and that is noted.

In other words, it is a bit like what happens if you are a regular at a restaurant, and to that extent the go-go bar business is like any other, good customers are treated well.

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-- My Enthusiastic & Am. Friend and I ret'd.to BKK. on 05 nov. as he wished to stay nearer to his acc'n., somewhere NORTH of CENTRAL - Lad Phrao; by report its flood-wall is keeping OUT the flood-waters, electricity & water are avail. still to those marooned inside - but access is nigh-on impossible without a boat.
- He booked-IN at THE BAVANA HTL. on S'wong. rd. at 1,200.oo.Bh. per diem., but left after just one night, complaining of the poor, thread-bare & unmaintained state of the room and the noise of road-traffic - his room o'looking. S'wong. rd.;
- He is staying now in THE GLITZ HTL., opp. to TAWANA HTL., at 1,700.oo.Bh. per diem., wch. he alleges is vastly better, PLUS the staff are pleasant & helpful. THE GLITZ is a non-smoking hotel - and is gay-friendly.

-- E&OE. as reported speech. --

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--Today, 10 nov. & Loy Krathong., while my Laptop was being checked at FORTUNE TOWN's 3fl.,(US.style.), KEMP-INT'L.,(#3E35.)*, I visited the GF. TESCO-LOTUS. to check-out the shelves for food & for water:
- Basically no locally produced & drinking/potable water seen, but plenty of Evian & Eau Perrier; a fair amt. of various fruit-juices and tetrapaks of milk, PLUS large bottles of Sprite and other & similar drinks; veggies. generally in good supply, as well as fish & meat; bread & cakes, too.
--* Recommended from just one visit - usual disclaimer!

-- As an aside most of the 1st.,2nd. &3rd. fls.,(US.2.,3. & & 4fls.), at the end nrer. to Rama IX. rd. are boarded-up for refurbishment etc. etc..
--

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1.- Today, 12 nov. forenoon, the TESCO-LOTUS S'STORE - tee junc. Si Lom:Convent rds. - had a few bottles of 'Cooly Soft.' drinking water on its shelves;
2.- TOP'S S'MKT. - SCSP. b'ment. - has eaunly 'Perrier.' & 'Vittel.' bottles avail.; no local brands seen;
2.- The FAMILY MART - S'wong. rd., opp. to LE MERIDIEN HTL., rec'd. a delivery of 13 dozen bottles: 'Neptune.' & 'Singha.' brands.
--

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-- This last week-end's alert of an HIGH tide flooding NORTH meeting the flood-waters ebbing SOUTH seems to have passed-away without any undue incidents; so, possibly, we'll be advised of further ebbings of the flood-waters in & around BKK.?

-- Y'day., 13 nov., my YM. & I were in LUMPHINI PK.; both the poor but honest & independent traders and the two CITY SHOPS that we saw appeared to have adequate supplies of drinking/potable water available, mainly 'Chang.' & 'Neptune.' brands: both in 330. & in 660ml. sizes; but no 'Gatorade.. seen.
--

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"No Gatorade seen". Surely the end of civilisation as we know it?

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