First of all I'm not arguing about it. I am stating a fact that the Soi Twilight Bars are Rip offs. They charge more then twice as much for the same thing available in Pattaya.

Second the drink is almost $10 at the price of 300 baht. I get water which costs 6 baht in 7/11 so 300 baht is a 50 times mark up (ridiculous)

Next I don't know about you but when I spend 90 minutes at a Bar I am likely to have 2 waters and I might like to buy at least 1 boy a drink, which now the total is $30.

Also except for the Fucking which is laughable, these types of show are available all over the world and boys to look at also. Try Montreal, Prague , Rio Ft Lauderdale and many more and none of them charge $10 for a drink.

The boys are the bargain not the Bars. Are they a necessary evil?

Yes unless you want to use Gayromeo. Do they need to charge the prices they do? Of course not. They rip off their customers because many are on a 3 day vacation and don't care.

That does not change the fact that the same is available in Pattaya for less then 1/2 the cost and the Bribes or Rents are no bigger in Bangkok.

I am the one who posted how big the crowd was at Boys on Friday night so I admit they can get away with it because many don't know any better.

I used to go to Soi Twilight 3 times a week and now at most 3 times a month.

I can find much better places to have drinks even in Bangkok and if I don't get to see 2 boys fucking who I would never take to bed anyways then I have lost nothing.

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I have been to all the places you mention -- Montreal, Prague, and Ft. Lauderdale. None of them offer anywhere near the miles of flesh you can see on the stage in Soi Twilight.

And try getting one of them to do a full-sex short-time with you for the equivalent of 1,500 baht. You can get a "private dance" for the length of one song (3-4 minutes) in Montreal for $15.00 -- with an open curtain (no privacy). In Florida, you're going to pay $100 - $150 PER HOUR, at least.

Prague is no longer cheap, either.

At Johnny's in Ft. Lauderdale -- which is what you're probably referring to -- parking is $8, entrance is $5, and drinks are $9.

I've also paid EUR $10.00 for a beer at a gay bar in Prague with one boy. Yes, one boy -- a single, fully-dressed boy.

As for Pattaya versus Bangkok, I'd think operating expenses in the center of a major world capital's prime financial district would be a bit higher than a shop house in a rundown "plaza" in Pattaya.

Police expenses are much higher in Bangkok, too -- don't forget that someone has to pay for your privilege of enjoying entertainment that is undeniably illegal.

The "six baht for a bottle of water" at 7-11 is a completely senseless argument -- at least until 7-11 starts offering boy fuck shows.

In the end, though, it's up to you. If you feel that $9-10 is a "rip-off" for a drink and all the flesh your eyes can possibly feast on, then you'll probably want to stay away.

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Your reply again is ridiculous. I firmly stated it is the boys who are the bargain and not the Bars . The boys are available all over Bangkok in many Bars for 120 baht drinks or less. They are available on Gayromeo for zero on drinks.

You are trying to justify the ridiculous prices the Bars on Soi Twilight charge by using what you have to pay the boys for sex. The bar charges an off fee for that and that should be plenty without ripping customers off on drink prices.

It is not a logical argument. The Bars in Montreal offer plenty of beautiful boys , naked hard etc. In fact many of the Bars have a far wider range of talent and far better looking then any bar on Soi Twilight. The drinks are $6. By the way Water is $4 which is 6x what it costs in 7/11 not 50x from the thieves on Soi Twilight. Yes if you want to take them home they are far more expensive then Thailand. But I don't need the Rip Off Bars on Soi Twilight to provide me with Boys. I can go to Soi 4 and get the same boys for $3 drinks Again if you think watching 2 or more of the least attractive boys on the Soi Fucking is worth paying $10 per drink then that is your choice.

You say Miles of Flesh . Where . There are no naked boys on stage on Soi Twilight. Unless you refer to the fairly unattractive boys in the Fuck Show which lasts about 6 minutes. In Montreal there is a constant flow of Naked and hard boys .

By the way even if you think the Fuck shows are worth $10 per drink where is your reply to the 30% of the time when there are no Fuck Shows(nasty police) Do the Rip Off owners lower their prices. Sure!!!

But don't try to tell me that is value for money. The Bars offer nothing that is worth that kind of money when compared to other areas in Thailand. The police are paid everywhere. It's a cost of doing business. Hell in Thailand you have Blow Job Bars where the drinks are 100 baht. In fact even a couple of gay bars in Bangkok where the same can be had and the drinks are 140 baht. I would guess that is all illegal also. ( a ridiculous argument from you)

Soi Twilight Prime Financial District , don't make me laugh so hard.

Go and look at Soi Twilight during the day. It is exactly the same as a Shop House in Pattaya . It is a joke. The area is a joke. where the taxi drivers are the same thieves as the Bar Owners. Financial Area for Thieves.

Maybe you are an owner of one of those Rip Off bars. Because otherwise your attempts to justify $10 drinks just don't make much sense.

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A straight farang who has been visiting BKK for decades told me that the bar owners in Patpong are thieves (he hates their guts, but when I asked him for details, he did not respond)--he says Soi Cowboy is fair and legitimate.

Also, maybe the farangs from expensive cities have driven up the expectations (prices) in BKK. I can't stand hearing New Yorkers, Londoners, etc. talking about how much a money boy would charge in their cities. Hot guys can be had in my medium-sized city, after some cruising, for $20 or $30--without all the artificial, conceited, "escort" routine.

Also, I've always felt that bars are a total waste of time, disappointing, etc. My lifetime observation is that any presence of alcohol totally changes the atmosphere to "waste of time." (I also learned very early to gay men with a cigarette--but this does not always apply to straight men.) I've always pondered the gay bar scene--it still makes no sense--but I think it has to do with with the presence of alcohol--like an unconscious, unexplainable, animal thing (the unconsciously-perceived odor of alcohol has some unconscious animal effect socially).

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Wow, I think I don't have anything left to say to you. Best to hang on to your five dollars if it causes so much stress and anger.

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I will and so will many others as you can see from the responses.

We don't like Thieves which is what the Soi Twilight Bars are. BTW typical when you are losing an argument not to reply to any of the points stated by the person you are having the debate with.

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If $5 are "hardly worth arguing or worrying about" as Icon states, why do the bar owners charge us $9 for a glass of soda?

I'm with Firecat on this one. The bars on Soi Twilight have been a total ripoff for several years now. I vote with my feet and go to Super A, Solid and Nature Boy. The boys are cuter, the atmosphere more relaxed and the prices reasonable.

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I cease being interested in debating when my conversation partner becomes shrill and emotional -- especially when you're talking about the cost of a Big Mac set. Using words like "thieves" and "rip-off" when someone finds a place simply too expensive for their tastes.

I happen to think the Normandie Grill is expensive for the food it serves, but I don't call the hotel a pack of thieves or a "rip-off" -- I simply don't go there. Other people think it's a bargain.

As long as everyone knows the price going in, and agrees to pay it, then there is no "thievery" or "ripping off". I know people who patronize those Soi Twilight Bars every week, and love them.

As for me, I personally lost interest in anything they offer about ten years ago, so it's a moot point for me. The only time I go is if I have a visitor in town who wants to be taken there.

Anyway, to each his own. Peace.

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Since I am sure the Normandie does not have a 50 x mark up, I doubt I would refer to them as thieves, just over priced.

Also part of my problem is caused by the one price strategy by all Gay Bars. Johnnie Walker Black is 300 baht and a bottle of water is 300 baht. Only in Thailand. When that water costs me 140 baht, I can live with it but 300 baht is just plain ridiculous.

No where else in the world are Hard Liquor, Sodas and beer all the same price.

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you forget to tell that in Pattaya the barowner has to pay everything for the boys, like housing, food, daymoney for the boys etc etc. I think that is not the same in Montreal or Prague.

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