Since things are quiet on the forms and I like to try and keep some discussion going on I thought I would try a new topic to get your thoughts on....

I was talking on line to a guy and telling him how much I envy him - growing up today where there is much more acceptance of being gay / bi and also how great it must be to have access to so much porn on line all your life.

What I found interesting is he did agree about some advantages but also talked about how his and the younger generations are growing up with so much to see on line - but not in person.

We talked about how in gym class everyone had to shower when I was a kid - today no one does. Sure it was embarrassing as a hairless 7th grader to have to shower with those GIANT and HAIRY (or they were compared to me) 9th graders - but you learned to never wash below the waist and don't get caught staring. How in college all the showers were open and if you had a roommate you saw each other changing everyday - now more and more they have private showers and even tiny private bedrooms.

When I was a kid if Jimmy invited me over to swim I would take over my trunks and we would go to Jim's room and change - not one at a time in the bathroom - or if at a sleep over you would change in the same room. I think at some point in time I saw almost all of my friends naked.

The guy on line was talking about how they would go in the bathroom to change - even at sleepovers - how no one showered after gym - how even in his dorm room he would change in the small private shower area - he said that growing up he saw almost no one naked and the "that is private no one should see it" was stressed for him and his friends from a young age.

I can understand parents concern - all the news stories about perverts and child molesters - but it seems like they are growing up fine with pictures - even naked pictures of themselves taken in the mirror at college - but afraid of being seen "for real".

I have had guys older than me tell me that when they were kids at the YMCA no one was allowed a swim suit - it was all naked swimming lessons - so my generation was more modest than theirs, but this new generation seems MUCH more modest.

In many ways I feel that seeing each other - not just from the sex point - but there was a lot of good from it in terms of accepting - seeing some bigger / some smaller - more hair / less hair, etc.

So I was wondering - how was it when and where you grew up? More private / less private? Were you taught to never let any other guy see you or did you grow up "we're all boys so who cares?"

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I'm 53 now, and I remember back in the 1970s seeing and being seen was just not a big deal. We probably had a more natural attitude toward the body, at least in gyms or locker rooms or similar spaces where it just made sense to be naked. Absolutely you showered after gym class and in most schools I went to they were gang showers, too.

It seems to me that the fear of predators and child molesters is a lot more now than it was back then. There simply wasn't the same sort of publicity. I wonder if the fear that a lot of parents have is blown out of proportion compared to the actual risk of their child being victimized. That's just speculation on my part, of course, but just look at the lead stories on your local newscasts now and compare it with back then. This has got to have some effect on the thinking and behavior of both the parents and the kids.

Of course, I can also say that I had unrequited crushes on the middle school gym teacher and the church choir leader. I knew what I wanted and who I wanted. But I was also a quiet introverted kid with no close friends and I didn't have an outlet to explore these desires. It was all years before the Internet, of course. We lived life in person or in books or in our vivid imaginations.

It may be that a lot of kids back then had more freedom simply to do stuff on their own or with other kids, with less supervision and less scheduling. Parents let you wander out to play on your own without expecting you to check in or text them or whatever it is young people do these days.

Of course, there was an atmosphere of societal repression: We were taught that being gay was a bad thing, and even if it wasn't always explicitly addressed (we didn't talk about it in my family or my church) you simply knew because of the wider culture. I didn't feel bad about my body at all. But back then, I did feel bad about being gay.

So something is gained and something is lost. Overall kids growing up these days do have it better. It's just different.

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I'd agree with GoodBob here. "Overall kids growing up these days do have it better. It's just different."

The truth is that all of the progress comes at a very high price, too. As it usually does.

The complexities of virtually all kinds that the young guys are facing these days are positively mind-boggling. In all honesty, an Average Joe may have lesser problems in hooking up for casual sex because of all the progress, both societal and technological of the past couple of decades. But when it comes to establishing himself, and having a decent life, our Average Joe has hit on very hard times.

To quite some extent, tolerance and technological progress are here for all of us. The basics such as a decent job, housing, career advancement, etc. require both far more talent and effort than in the past, leaving quite a few to fend off for themselves on the verge of being practically destitute.

KD

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The showers in my gym class were all open, everybody saw everything. It was no big deal. I do remember some of the guys were pretty big.

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jonwill - that was the thing - it was just a given "you are all boys so why hide it" - showers in gym - no dividers at the urinals - you saw each others dicks while growing up.

You talk to younger guys and for them it was always hidden - there was no casual seeing each other change, etc - one guy told me that the first time he ever saw another guys dick "live" was when he first had gay sex in college.

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Here is a perfect example of the problems of growing up now vs. then...

There was a story in the newspaper about a 14 year old boy that a fellow student caught on video masturbating in the school bathroom and I guess he posted it for all to see. The kid he recorded killed himself.

I just can't imagine all the cameras and things kids have to deal with now - and the fact that others feel free to post it on line. If I had been caught playing with it in the school bathroom it would have been my word against his - there would be no proof and it would never have gone beyond a group of people - I would have denied it and in a day or two it would have gone away. But now so much is recorded and other there forever.

I see college students who post dick pix on line - yeah - they are very hot and sexy - but you wonder how many of them will regret that picture 5 - 10 - 20 years down the road.

There are a lot of pluses to technological advancement - but a lot of dangers as well.

California teenager kills himself after video of him masturbating goes viral

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This is a very good example of how the things have changed.

I have bumped into dudes who were jerking off in communal showers, locker rooms, etc., thinking that no one else was there. I just shrugged with my shoulders, and left the dude alone. Both my str8 and gay friends openly talked about masturbating, and having sex. No one thought that there was anything wrong with this. More power to the dudes who scored or were enjoying themselves. Past the age of fourteen , even the thought that you should mention this as being anything to be ashamed of would have been a perfect reason for the other guys to laugh at you.

KD

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Funny how the generations back would not even acknowledge they EVER did it.

For us it was talked about in health class as something everyone does so joking about masturbating was always easy - the group of friends you could admit it in front of was much smaller - but the stigma was gone by the time I grew up.

But that is so different that being a young teen and having someone record it and put it on the Internet.

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I think one real advantage of then over now was the lack of the Internet.

Now anyone can find anything they want at home - there is no reason to share or interact.

But back then if someone had something dirty everyone wanted to look at it - they sure as hell were not going to loan it to you no matter how many times you asked -

If a buddy had dirty magazines or even better a VHS tape - you would often end up looking at them together -

And more than once looking at it together led to jokes about the other guys hard on showing and sometimes that moved on to jacking off in front of each other.

It was a wonderful fun and in its own weird way sort of innocent activity. Just 2 horny guys getting off - nothing more....

But damn it was fun.

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The other thing that internet did to all of us was to devalue human contact, and to some extent even respect we have towards our fellow humans.

Hooking up before the internet age required either active cruising or tedious going through the classifieds, sending snail mail, xeroxed pix, etc. So, most guys had realistic expectations about this other dude they were going to meet.

Now, I met a dude who turned down another pretty cute guy who did not have the eyebrows trimmed to his liking? Stupid.

KD

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EYEBROWS?

That guy is never going to find anyone that will live up to his standards....

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Probably not. But like so many other guys out there, he is a victim of the popular misperception that you can choose, choose, and then, be picky, picky some more.

KD

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It is like the people I see posting about "old trolls" in their 40's who go to the adult book stores....

These guys don't realize that time marches on and one day they will be there....

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The old days - Open gang showers., gym was mandatory (dr note required to skip, not a note from mommy) as was taking a shower afterwards from 4th grade all the way thru 12. No private showers in college either.

(just us guys) Down by the river? take a swim!, who cared if you didn't have a bathingsuit., you didn't go in the water in your underwear, what would you wear leaving?!
Bathroom break - why close the door?
We also had fun (general & naughty) in the woods., and woods were all around. (recently was back where I grew up- all the woody playgrounds were gone or so much smaller as to be risking view. All replaced or encroached by housing developments, condos, & businesses.)

Most of us went all over town, The parental supervision was basically- you better be where you are supposed to be, when you are supposed to be somewhere. Other than that, don't get into trouble., or it will get worse when you get home. lol


[The other thing that internet did to all of us was to devalue human contact, and to some extent even respect we have towards our fellow humans. ]
Not just the internet- These SmartPhones too.
Today, it amazes me how casually rude the younger crowd is. Its becoming almost standard behavior. They believe they deserve a great deal of 'respect' and entitled to a lot. At the same time they don't seem to think they need to respect anyone. The in-person interactions are instantly dismissed by a bing on their smartphone. Even a stray thought during interaction causes them to whip out the phone, and put who they are with, on hold. Then there is a lot of chatter while saying next to nothing.
I work with a lot of 17-20somethings and it regularly surprises me their poor command of basic English/basic math/basic history/basic biology., and yet they supposedly did (or do) well in school.

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I sometimes wonder if the growth of gay rights and acceptance of gays might have something to do with it.

Growing up you saw most of your buddies naked - no big deal. A number of them at some point you saw hard - sometimes leading to jacking off together.

With a few it went even farther.

But what was never talked about is that what we were doing was gay sex. We were just horny and looking for an outlet. With a few there were even comments about "practicing for when we get girls".

The sex was there - and it was great - and we loved it. But we never addressed that maybe it was more than something we would grow out of one day.

Now being gay is open, talked about and gays are an everyday part of life. And that is a good thing. BUT that puts a lot more pressure on those casual "no big deal" fooling around situations at a sleepover.

Even if it wasn't "just a phase" we could think that it was and enjoy ourselves without making a life choice.

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