Call me a conspiracy nut if you want, but I think that AIDS was created by our government to kill off "undesirable" portions of the world population--but ended up accidentally spreading to the general public. I've read articles and books that point to the experimental hepatitis B vaccine given to gay men in the late 70's as being the origin of the disease in America, and the African origin was the World Health Organization's polio and smallpox eradication project, also in the late 70's.

Earlier this week, the New England Journal of Medicine recommended that virtually all Americans be tested routinely for the AIDS virus, much as they are for cancer and other diseases. Then late in the week the first case of the new drug-resistant strain of HIV is widely reported. Coinsidence? Or have they perfected their biological weapon to kill it's target before it can spread to unintended victims?

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You are a conspiracy nut......

Take a prozac and mellow out. The world is not such a perfect place but it isnt that bad either. No matter what you think about our government, what you suggest is more along the line of someone like sadam hussain, momar kadafi, and other such nuts as you look back in history.

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40 something, 6' 175 brn/brn hairy looking for other married wm or younger guys to play.

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Agreed. But I'd go with Valium instead of Prozac -- I just like "Mother's Little Helper" much more.

We cannot definitively trace the origins of HIV -- there is no "patient zero," at least not that I've ever heard of. But this is scientific semantics, if you will -- since we do not have a single, isolated case pinpointed, we cannot make claims to have PROVEN the origin of this virus using the scientific method.

But that doesn't mean that we cannot trace it back to a few very likely source candidates.

You need to remember that HIV has been studied by scientists all over the world -- many in private organizations. The study of HIV is NOT regulated and controlled by any ONE government. If there was a conspiracy out there, there would be a LOT of strong evidence which lends credence to those theories. So far, there is NO real evidence of this WHATSOEVER. Crackpot theories abound, but there is NO hard evidence.

Besides, there are a zillion more effective means of killing people available. There is no logic in releasing a virus, even in an imperfect state, which takes five to ten or even fifteen years to kill someone.

There is also no logic in releasing a virus which kills ALL human beings via sexual transmission. No more sex = no more babies = no more human race.

Additionally, AIDS is more prevalent worldwide in the HETEROSEXUAL community.

Sadly, we could debate this topic for years -- there's no way to convince a conspiracy theorist of anything he doesn't want to believe.

So, really... why bother?

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Well SC, you forgot to mention about how virus' mutate and cross over between animals and humans. As I remember the current train of thought is that HIV was a mutation of a virus that infected apes.

Watch the news reports and you would find out about the "Bird Flu" which is an example of a crossover in 2 unrelated animals.

Im not wordy like SC. Get out your college biology book and go to work. Web MD might be of some help too.

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40 something, 6' 175 brn/brn hairy looking for other married wm or younger guys to play.

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I'm a real doctor. So let's make that thorazine, an old, reliable, anti psychotic med.

It was made by the CIA, after they finished the phony moon landing project, but before they got the martians to finally take Elvis and his lousy music home. I even saw it in a movie, so there's your proof.

It was a chimpanzee virus which jumped species in the 1930s, spread by blood contact between humans and dead monkeys.

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GASlick:

I mentioned viruses jumping species boundaries in another post -- specifically I discussed Bird Flu and even added a statement about the HIV/monkey theory.

There wasn't much reason to get into all of that again -- like I said, trying to convince a conspiracy theorist of anything he doesn't want to believe is pretty much a futile effort.

And I was trying to not be so wordy!



Doc:

I never heard of HIV being traced back as far as the 30s, but I'll take your word for it and enjoy doing a bit of research for "fun." The last theory I heard was that this suspected transition to humans happened at about the time when the elusive "patient zero" allegedly started the epidemic, in the mid to late seventies.

Supposedly this "patient zero" was a gay male flight attendant who had traveled to Africa. This sounds like a whole lot of bullshit to me! It seems to be a conveniently contrived theory which puts the blame on gay men.

Then again, I doubt we'll ever know for sure.

I do believe you regarding the timetable as far as when we think the species jump occurred.

And... wow... thorazine... heavy duty treatment! I like that...

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Eithan Gaitano was probably a figment of Randy Shilt's imagination, rest his soul.

As I've written many times, the bug mutates at a remarkable rate. I flunked statistics in high school, but you can work backwards and somehow, the rocket scientists have figured out that this critter emerged sometime in the 1930s. Blood samples from patients who have weird diseases are routinely stored at CDC. There was a documentable case of AIDS here in the US around 1958 or 1959. Shilts wrote about a Danish nurse who worked in the Congo who died in 1966, if I'm not mistaken, again, confirmed HIV + based on stored samples.

The shit hit the fan here in the US in the early to mid 70s, when agent whoever he was showed up on our shores, and made a bee line to the local bath house. Using the 5-7 year extrapolation, the first AIDS case showed up in LA in 1981, so infections began spreading rapidly in the early to mid 70s. As Shilts pointed out, it wasn't a "gay" disease, but gay behavior at the dawn of sexual liberation (Stonewall is 1969), led to a dramatic amplification of the disease, allowing major dissemination.

An no guys, it wasn't spread by evil Republicans out to kill us. It was our own, irresponsible behavior that started the epidemic, and that same behavior is threatening a new generation today.

Nuff lecturing.

Dr Danny

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Good job as always dr danny!!!!!!!! Thanks for your information.

__________________
40 something, 6' 175 brn/brn hairy looking for other married wm or younger guys to play.

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Well, you guys probably thought that our military didn't torture people until you saw the pics from Abu Ghraib. Here's a little timeline to back-up my theory:

1969 Dr. Robert MacMahan of the Department of Defense requests from congress $10 million to develop, within 5 to 10 years, a synthetic biological agent to which no natural immunity exists.

1970 Funding for the synthetic biological agent is obtained under H.R. 15090. The project, under the supervision of the CIA, is carried out by the Special Operations Division at Fort Detrick, the army's top secret biological weapons facility. Speculation is raised that molecular biology techniques are used to produce AIDS-like retroviruses.

1970 United States intensifies its development of "ethnic weapons" (Military Review, Nov., 1970), designed to selectively target and eliminate specific ethnic groups who are susceptible due to genetic differences and variations in DNA.

1975 The virus section of Fort Detrick's Center for Biological Warfare Research is renamed the Fredrick Cancer Research Facilities and placed under the supervision of the National Cancer Institute (NCI) . It is here that a special virus cancer program is initiated by the U.S. Navy, purportedly to develop cancer-causing viruses. It is also here that retrovirologists isolate a virus to which no immunity exists. It is later named HTLV (Human T-cell Leukemia Virus).

1978 Experimental Hepatitis B vaccine trials, conducted by the CDC, begin in New York, Los Angeles and San Francisco. Ads for research subjects specifically ask for promiscuous homosexual men.

1981 First cases of AIDS are confirmed in homosexual men in New York, Los Angeles and San Francisco, triggering speculation that AIDS may have been introduced via the Hepatitis B vaccine.

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I think SC said it best --"there's no way to convince a conspiracy theorist of anything he doesn't want to believe".

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Okay, Jeremy, I surrender. You are right about Abu Ghraib and the torture aspect, so you must also be right about the military aspect. I think if any woman approached me and put her underwear on my head, smeared menstrual (ink) on my face, and made me stand in the shower, naked, with 10 other guys and made me jerk off in front of a camera, I would confess to anything. Jeez, I would rather have my head sawed off with a machete any day!

Be that as it may, $10M research dollars, even then, would buy a 10x12 laboratory rent for a year, one or two centrifuges, and some rubber gloves. And possibly economy air tickets to Haiti, the Congo, and Studio 54 to start field testing.

Keep your head down, boy. Thems Martians coming to get you...

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Thanks for all that great information, Doc! Well, it isn't "great," but you know what I mean...

I'm ignoring the rest of this conspiracy garbage -- it's not worth my time.

But I WILL say this -- I, for one, NEVER doubted that the US military was capable of torturing prisoners. Please... the scandal was no surprise to me.

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Well, to quote WT Sherman (that bastard that burned Atlanta)

"War is Hell"

I might like to try the leash , panties, and the bitch to lead me around....might be kidna fun. I havent gotten kinky in a while.

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40 something, 6' 175 brn/brn hairy looking for other married wm or younger guys to play.

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It's true that I'm inclined to believe the worst about our government, but they've earned that, in my opinion. You guys don't seem to have an open mind on this subject. I may be wrong--or I may be so on the mark that I've blown your minds. Ya never know. If no one asks the difficult, unpopular questions, we'll never know the truth about anything.

And since GASlick brought it up, I think that it's hilarious that Southerners are still pissed about the Civil War. You guys were wrong, and you lost. Get over it.

And for Dr. Danny:
You're joking, right? Lab rent, maybe $100k per year--but since this was done on a military installation, that wouldn't come into play. Centrifuges, I'm not sure, but they couldn't have been more than a few grand a piece back then. And the cost of airline travel wasn't an issue for government scientests. The fact that a doctor glosses over the facts(?) I've presented may convince a few sheep, but you can't kill this issue that easily. And I've got my tin foil pyramid hat on, so ET ain't got nothin' on me.



Plus, you've got to admit that this is the most entertaining thread on this bb in a long time.

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I haven't posted on this thread because I don't have anything to add really, but find all the posts interesting, especially yours Jeremy. I too think it's importand to ask questions and to question. Since you're posts are founded on some fact, I just can't brush it off that easily.

Conspiracy theories are usually disregarded and the people who promote them called freaks, or, paranoid of "martians" as one said here ;-)

Keep your open mind, it'll do you more good than harm.

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