I know oral sex (especially active) is supposed to carry minimal risk of HIV transmission, but what sort of oral sex does this refer to?

I like fucking a bottom's throat real deep and have sometimes found men who can take it all the way. I fuck their mouth pretty much like I'd fuck their ass, sometimes pretty rough too.

Is that really so different from fucking ass without a condom? I just wonder whether the usual definition of low-to-zero risk is based on standard vanilla oral sex with just half the dick in the bottom's mouth.

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While I've never seen any information presented on the question you ask, logic would dictate that the risk would actually be less in the type of deep throat fucking you describe than in what you describe as "vanilla oral sex." It would seem to me that the deeper into the throat the semen is deposited, the less likely the possibility of HIV transmission. It is my understanding that the most likely route of HIV infection from oral sex is through an opening (cut, sore, etc.) in the gums or mouth. But hey, I ain't no doctor.

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"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully
as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal

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is like asking a baker if his bread is fresh.

If you're really want an accurate response, why not ask your physician?

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I'm no doctor either but unlike queteimporta I'm assuming you're questioning the risk to the guy getting sucked.

I can't imagine it would make much difference how much dick you stick in a guy. Seems like the risk would be the same whether you fuck a guy with all of your dick or only half (oral or anal).

By that reasoning a guy with a short dick is less at risk than a big dick guy.

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I suggest you write to Dr Bob, the resident safer sex expert, at thebody dot com.

My thoughts are, the rougher the sex, the more likely to incur trauma of some sort, either to the cock or the throat. And of course, trauma increases the risk of HIV being passed from one to the other, weather it be the top or bottom. I don't want to start the debate again, but guys with foreskin are more at risk of catchinhg HIV than guys who are circed, not matter if they have an open cut or not.

Either way, I believe the CDC puts the risk (for receiving oral) at 1 in 10,000 for an unknown carrier and 3 in 10,000 for a known poz.

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I don't want anyone to get the idea that I advocate unsafe sex practices....that is total insanity. But I do want to demonstrate that sex with a positive guy does not guarantee infection. HIV is actually not easy to catch.

I became aware of my status in late May 2004. Looking back, I realized that I sero converted in mid April of 2004. Between those two dates (when the virus was at it's peak level and I was most infectious), I had unprotected sex with my wife and yet she did not become infected. Last fall, we had two condum failures(condom slipped off, I didn't know it, and came inside her), yet again, she did not become infected (granted, by then I was on meds and undectable.....not uninfected, just undetectable by current testing methods).

I am always amazed that once a guy finds out I am positive, they refuse to have anything to do with me. Yet they think nothing of having risky sex with a guy who does not know his status. They are actually safer with me than that guy. But as President Carter once said, "life is not always fair".

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I was sorry Poz_biM to read of your status and the situations you had with your wife.

When I see that the word used is "safer" not "safe," I do think twice about unprotected oral sex which is usually classified as "safer." Usually in discussions about oral sex there is mention that someone might have dental bleeding or other problems in the mouth, that might give an opening to the virus infection. As the statistics show, it is still rare to transmit HIV during oral sex, according to what I have read.

Rarely, however, in cruising, do I see a man using a condom during oral sex with men. Female prostitutes nowadays seem to be giving up on a condom during oral sex, as well.

Poz, it does not seem to me that you are less likely to transmit the disease, but maybe you are no worse than the untested and unprotected one, The odd thing is that many cruisers seem to think have sex with a married man is safer because he is extra carefuls inthat he does not want to give anything to his wife. I think you shot down that idea.

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Northern Virginia Guy -- Bi Sometime TV wants to suck your cock for a long time and swallow. Looking for top rung gay or bi men, preferably for more than a one night stand. Like lots of oral and hand massage, but will satisfy you in all ways. Willing to try to be fucked by gentle guy. I have been married so I am sensative to married guys needs, including the need for discretion. I do have a place to host, but like to meet for coffee first. My experience is little really so you will also have fun teaching me your ways as I am very receptive to you and your ideas. Please write to me via email.

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The guys I know that only suck cock (cocksuckers) and nothing else now for more than 20+ years and still after sucking literally thousands of cocks are all still HIV- every single one of them and I know several BI/gay truckers (deepthroat ram rods) and others that just like a blow job (nothing else) and have gotten hundreds if not thousands of blow jobs and they all remain HIV- so I do not think you can get HIV through oral sex now. My CB radio friends (both older guys from the old school) have both showed me their personal log books of every trucker driver they sucked in the last 20+ years 18,000 (eighteen thousand) WOW! and 21,000 (that is twenty-one thousand) dicks (I would definitely go to the nearest lip replacement surgeon after that many) and they both still remain HIV- I don't want anyone to get the idea that I advocate unsafe sex practices either but I really do think time has told.

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The last study I saw on the subject of HIV risk from oral sex said that about 5% of new HIV infections are in people who say that oral sex is the riskiest thing they do. This is based on several studies each involving thousands of guys worldwide, not a couple of trucker groupies.

Maybe these people are ashamed to admit that they bareback; maybe they are so high that they can't remember what they did; maybe they always suck to completion; maybe they only deepthroat guys with hardware in their dicks; maybe they only suck injectable drug users rather than truckers. Until such more detailed information is known there is still considerable doubt that oral sex is absolutely safe.

Deepthroat has got to be riskier than standard oral sex because of the softness of the throat tissues and hence the chance for microtears. Also, langerhans cells, the same ones that putatively make having a foreskin an HIV risk factor, are plentiful in the throat.

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usotsuki,

To address your original question, this is a subject of considerable interest for me also. Beyond the statement that receptive oral is more risky than insertive oral I have not been able to find any hard (no pun intended) data on the relative risks of various insertive oral sex alternatives. It may be that it is just impossible to gather such data from the guys who become HIV+ or it may be that there is no interest in deciding the question in the medical establishment. After all, unprotected anal and sharing needles are known risk factors and people still do them so why should researchers care about the tiny minority who may or may not become infected via insertive oral since they present such a small public health problem?

For what it's worth, if a guy can swallow my dick easily, I let him. If he has to try hard to stuff it in I tell him to work on the head.

GayWillow,

I like the way that people will instantly choose the alternative that fits their own prejudices to the exclusion of other plausible alternatives.

The last article I saw about the efficacy of saliva in killing semen said that the effect was not due to "enzymes" but rather due to the extremely neutral nature of the water in the saliva. Even if you believe in enzymes do you think that that big wad of spooge you just swallowed is going to be instantly cleansed of all viruses before any of them get a chance to sneak thru the hole in the mucous membranes of your mouth caused by that crusty piece of French bread? Semen is ropey and lumpy and it takes a while to appear to disolve in water. Even then there will be undisolved lumps. Fill your bathroom sink with water, jerk off into it and see for yourself.

21,000 blowjobs is a lot. It's almost 1 a day, every day, for 60 years, whether you feel like it or not, whether you are on vacation or not, whether you are sick or not. Every day of every year for 60 years! A 75 year old would have to start at age 15 and suck somebody off every day for the rest of his life to get to this number.

Most of the 60 and 70 year olds I see at the local spots don't get much action. Chances are your guys got most of their action when they were younger, i.e., pre-AIDS, if they did score as much as you believe.

Have fun. Play safe.

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usotsuki
I like fucking a bottom's throat real deep and rough also. It is the only way I like it. I have fucked a bottom's mouth until he was bleeding. I get tested for HIV every 3-6 months and so far I remain HIV-. Personally I don't think HIV can be transmitted by getting a blow job because I think by now I would definitly have it.

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GayWillow,

The web link you posted contains no data; it is just someone's opinion and the opinion is that oral sex does entail some risk. Low risk is not the same thing as no risk.

Actually, it makes my point, that there is not enough hard data about the safety of various acts, very well. Here is a page with dozens of bits of opinion and all of the various receptive oral sex practices are lumped together. Oral sex can span a wide range of acts, from kissing a foreskin to fucking a throat bloody. (georgiaboy, are you going to quit while you're ahead or keep doing it until you find a poz guy who finally infects you?) These acts obviously have varying degrees of risks yet the web page might lead you to believe that they are all "very low risk".

quoth GayWillow: Oh gawd, not another doubter of bisexuality. Isn't it amazing when a member of an oppressed group goes looking for someone else to oppress? Every time someone says that bis are just confused homosexuals it makes me want to rant about how gays can really learn to love sex with women if they only had a little psychological counseling. No doubt some of them could, just as some bis are really on their way to realizing that they are gay. But that doesn't mean all are!

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Pike the link does work - Stop having sex at all with anyone if you are that afraid of catching something. Find a way to live your life and be happy whatever it is.

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