Speechless is too mild ! I have better adjectives : repulsive or repugnant should be more apt ::

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I usually used water-based, but I've never had a problem with apparently-non-water-based. A very long time ago, I had a condom break on a very big, hot, masculine Puerto Rican, and I think it was not water-based. The water base seems not to be as good a lubricant. Actually, I think the safe sex counselors are wrong to even be wasting time talking about using only water-based.

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Okay, I like real sex with real men. The people who don't like my comments are probably the same people who have ruined it for others by inflating the prices for what is basically unsatisfactory fake sex. This includes paying way too much for massages.

When I am in with one of these fakes who make way too much money getting picked up and doing almost nothing, I smile and am very friendly, and I end up say something like, "okay, this isn't working out, can you just leave now--I'll give you your XXX?." They know what the problem is (their fakeness) and they start offering me a massage or some other thing never agreed to. I insist, and we end the session. They probably laugh at what they made.

By the way, I was very successful at meeting guys online. I am honest and don't play gay games, and I don't do endless e-mails with fake farang charm. I met some really nice Thai students and others with good jobs who really like me.

I think the whole Bangkok cruising scene is being taken over by internet postings.

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Oh, by the way, I talked with a Chinese-looking (and basically cute) guy near Grand Palace. Like many others, he was with a friend (this usually indicates trouble--the best ones are by themselves). He couldn't speak any English. His friend translated. He started out high, and then it went down. Then, when I mentioned kissing, it quadrupled. I really think many of the street guys get picked up and do almost no substantive sex. They think they are valuable and can make a lot of money for just being a pretty ornament who gets picked up.

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There is tremendous conceit in your mails. The impression I get is that you are one of those cheapstake farangs who are always on the look out for a cheap dinner - forever whining and complaining about expenses, cheats etc etc. You say you do well with the Thai students -obviously, they are probably more gullible than the hardened guys in the bars.

I have no problems with what you do, or how successful you are in luring Thai stuents, or your inability to comprehend why some thais prefer older farangs to a deadly specimen such as you etc. When one reads your postings, one is livid; and believe me, I am not alone on this board.

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"Fakeness"?

You seem to have lost sight of the fact that OF COURSE it is fake. You are a john and they are a prostitute, and they are probably fighting the urge to throw up when you press your body against theirs or try to "kiss" them.

I think if you have repeated lack of satisfaction with prostitutes, you might want to give a try at finding a non-commercial hook-up who might actually have genuine sexual attraction to you. It might be difficult, but quality always wins out over quantity in my book.

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Not everyone agrees with you. I dont

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I said I am not alone. That does not mean everyone is with me. Fine difference there !

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Hey, I'm just giving my observations.

By the way, I was talking with a farang in Bangkok last week who said that only about 1 out of 3 of the bar boys will give any kind of satisfactory sex. He said it's more worth it to just pay more in his country where he has some regulars. (In Bangkok, he goes to Babylon to meet guys, and likes it very much.)

I think more farangs should be mad if they off a guy from a bar, or pick up one elsewhere, and then spend a lot of time going to a room, and then the whole thing is a total waste of time. I totally don't care about the money--it's the fact that I've basically been misled into wasting a lot of time late at night, and I don't feel like going back and starting the whole thing over again.

Some guys really do perform, and are great. I had two really wonderful experiences this last trip (out of six such guys). It is unfair to these guys that there are a bunch of scammers out there.

I had a lot of wonderful times with guys I met online--none of whom wanted money. I'm going to meet some of these guys again on my next trip, plus some others where we just couldn't schedule to meet (they had final exams, or had to go upcountry during holiday, etc.).

I'm moving on to other subjects. Stop the bitchy viscious personal attacks--I'm just giving my observations. Farangs with money and a lot of time to waste have let the money boy situation get out of control (fakes who are kept on staff in bars, etc.). I know what I'm doing, I know how to size up guys and situations, and I hate making mistakes. I will not off a boy from a bar. And I don't do massage places. I've had really great sex from guys I met cruising other places.

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Wantasian, for you, time for rehab, and time to reconsider what the Thai bar scene is all about.

There is a gay commercial sex scene in most big cities in almost every country in the world. For example, in many European and many US cities this 'industry' is enormous.

Would you demand the same 'expectations' from commercial sex activity in all of these cities / countries?

I suspect your way out of touch with the realities of why young men enter this business, and the fact that people who run this industry, are, in general not nice people, and they have (whether you or I like it or not) no concern whatever for what you (totally unrealistically) want or expect as 'service'.

Challenge the operators in this 'industry' in many countries and risk having your face re-arranged or your legs broken; wake up to some simple and obvious facts of life of commercial sex.

Actually, I think your dangerous and I suggest you take a 'time out.'

I also hope that the people you 'encounter' don't get damaged by your total shit.

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I avoid the gay commercial sex scene that involves pretty boys who advertise or hang out in commercial places like go-go bars and think they're valuable ornaments. I cruise other ways and try to get guys who will do real sex. I like going to Babylon sometimes (and sometimes checking out other saunas) and meeting non-money guys online. Many of these guys are not hunks (and many, when I ask why they don't have a Thai boyfriend, say they are not good-looking: and although they might have some some facial unprettiness where they might have difficulty getting offed in a bar, they are young and good-looking enough for me and usually have hot bodies and are passionate and good in bed, and really like me, and appreciate that I like them, too, and they keep calling me and sending text messages). I know all about the commercial sex scene--but there are different levels and aspects. I avoid the outright commercial go-go bar / massage scene and prefer to simply meet guys online or public cruising places (which takes a lot more work). I will take the advice to take a time-out from meeting fakes in certain cruising places. Someone has written books on the subject, and he points out that the money guy needs to do his job or he will not succeed. Apparently a lot of these guys succeed in Thailand making a LOT of money by Thai standards for doing very little if anything. The farangs just drool over these guys.

I don't see that stopping a totally fake sex session and saying I have to leave (the short-stay hotel room) or asking the guy to leave my room is "total shit" or something that would risk having my face re-arranged or my legs broken. I'm polite about it, and the other guy knows (or should know) that his crappy performance is not doing anything for me, and in fact is totally turning me off. I don't cheat anyone. But if they start talking about a tip or taxi money, I don't give it (unless we agreed to this ahead-of-time).

I would think that a guy should have some concern for whatever I want or expect as service. Am I just supposed to throw money at them for nothing--simply because they're cute? Apparently too many people do this.

If the guy is good, I give him a nice tip above what was discussed.

And I'll say this again: these guys see us farangs coming, and 500, 1000, 1500, and 2000 baht are all huge amounts compared with what they would make at a drudge real job.

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A thai maid can make 6-8,000 Baht a month. A car driver - 9-14,000 Baht. Most taxi drivers do 15-20,000 Baht a month ( which is why there are so many more taxis now than before). If they have to prostitute themselves to some UF their expectations would be higher. But no one can argue with you.

Try doing what these money minded Thais are doing and promote the USA as a sex destination with free visas on arrival for everyone; may be your economy will come out of its dump. And then, I shall certainly rave and rant that these Americans are earning huge amounts of money for doing nothing !!

PS : There are many wonderful Americans and this is not directed at them. Apologies if I have offended them !

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Even in the days when bars provided condoms (and yes, I suspected they charged the boys for them)

I thought condoms are obtainable free from the Ministry of Health. A massage boy who was also involved in NGO AIDS work once told me his organisation goes around giving tons of condoms to gay massage joints.

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They are provided free by government and NGO sources and boys are not charged for them. Don't know where some of you get this stuff.

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Just because NGOs provide them free to the bars does not necessarily mean the bars give them free to the boys.

There was a sauna (in a neighbouring country) that received boxes and boxes of free condoms from an NGO. The sauna management SOLD those condoms piece by piece to customers, until the NGO found out and raised hell. I heard this from the executive director of the NGO the day after he stormed into the sauna and gave of his best.

Considering the track records of mamasans and captains of gogo bars in Thailand when it comes to truth and integrity, I'm not altogether confident that Thai bars are always above such tactics.

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