Wanna,

Sorry to hear it's turning out this way. Even though your loss is very personal, realize we've all been there too in one way or another.

You are in mourning right now. And mourning takes time. It also involves tears, anger, guilt, depression, and even denial at times. Sometimes you can run through everything in less than a minute. Other times, each episode can last hours or days. Just recognize this loss will affect you for a while in ways that can surprise you.

Scruffy's right in that you need to focus on yourself at this time and make sure you treat yourself well. Pamper yourself and if you can, take a break from work and stress in general.

Don't try to diminish the hurt, but accept it. Fighting it or trying to avoid it will only make it worse. If tears come, let them flow. Then dry your eyes, tell yourself it's all right and go on.

A good walk in the sun can do wonders. So can the touch of another who empathizes and understands. This is not the time to isolate yourself, but keep yourself out there mingling and in contact with the world.

Take a note from other times you have lost someone. What worked and what did not? Do what worked and avoid what didn't.

P.S. A little chocolate works wonders-My favorite combo is chocolate and caramel. It's hard for me to be depressed while enjoying a Russell Stover's chocolate-covered caramel. YMMV.

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You have been so good to me,ALL.
Today is the hardest, it's the first day without two months in my life.
I've been listening to what you all say, and took time last night to cry on the shoulder of an old friend.
He advised, I must also move on, but also feels that I should not shut out 8 years from my life because of my pain, 8 years has wanted our friendship to continue, my friend last night thinks I should bite the bullett and except his friendship ,he feels 8 years is making his judgement because I pressured him ,he can not possibly know in his heart that 2 months is a better person, and if down the road he realizes he made a mistake I will be there, if not I have a friend that started 8 years ago and can share good times with.
I think he makes sence but I'm not sure I can take the pain of looking at 8 years,right now, knowing he is someone elses man at least for now.
I must realize nothing may or will develope but at least have a friend, that 25 and I can enjoy.
Love to hear the feelings of you guys.
Guess right now I have nothing, but could have a friend.

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I should have added, that for three weeks I have been TRYING to find a counsolor in the Connecticut area to prepare myself with no luck, I knew even if 8 and I broke up, 25 and I were gonna need an open mind to open too.
I know most of you great people are from out of State but if you can suggest someone or a line, YES, I know it is needed.

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[Long, as you'd expect, but I hope it will be helpful just the same.]


Best I can do for you is to Google out a link that seems pretty decent:

http://www.aglbic.org/

Give that a shot. Click the "Therapist Resource Listing" link on the right hand side of the page. Many New England references are available, with full contact information.

If you don't mind, I'd like to offer a little bit of food for thought with regard to the "let's stay friends" aspect of all this, but I want you to understand that this is all just stuff to keep in mind -- it may not pertain to you directly (since every relationship is different), and in no way am I going to tell you that the choices made by other people are the same choices YOU should follow. You need to make up your mind on this on your own.

In some strange way, I guess I still consider my ex a "friend," though I haven't seen or heard from him since August. And even though he did some things that I believe no friend should ever do to another friend... it's in my own best interest to forgive what I can forgive and though I will NEVER forget completely, I can manage to AT LEAST sort of dismiss a lot of things as "ancient history" and move on.

If my ex wasn't with the guy he is currently with, a guy who lied to me more than any other person ever lied to me in my life, and guy who abused me not only physically but mentally and emotionally... probably I'd be OK with maintaining a cordial, albeit rather perfunctory relationship with my ex. If he wanted to call me up and say hello every now and then, or stop over and see his "ex dog" or something like that, I'd be OK with it. But he doesn't want to do that, so I don't have to even worry about it. Also, for the life of me I can't imagine how he can be with someone that I consider so... fucking... CREEPY. This makes me doubt my ex's character -- which leads to me feeling guilty for doing so, and also makes me question why I stayed with him as long as I did in the first place. Since I cannot change the past or repair my own mistakes that are now long gone, I think it is best that I simply MOVE ON and not waste time and energy wrestling with moral dilemmas that no longer affect my own personal BOTTOM LINE. Like I said -- for ME, if it doesn't relate to the bottom line, I'd rather be done with it.

But hey, I understand what you're saying. Fourteen years (for me) of AT LEAST some sort of friendship is hard to relinquish.

At first, the thought of the two of them "belonging" to each other and neither of them "belonging" to me was hard to take. When I found a condom wrapper tossed casually under the bed after I once left my ex (drunk) at the other dude's home... well, it wasn't a good feeling, you know? The GOOD news is that this "kicked in the gut" kind of feeling passed rather quickly. I'm not bullshitting when I tell you that NOW, I couldn't care less about it. They can be fucking each other like rabbits every single night and I wouldn't lose a wink of sleep over it. I rarely even give it any thought at all, and if it ever does cross my mind, I gotta tell you -- it kind of makes me sick. I am no longer attracted to either of them. Not physically, not mentally, not emotionally, no spiritually. I feel no more jealousy, and that's a VERY good thing. Moderate and tempered jealousy is a natural, normal and acceptable human emotion, and it has its place in the grand scheme of life and love. It can be learning tool, if you want it to be. But there's also nothing wrong with having jealousy simply fade away, either. You can learn from THAT, too.

Honestly, man... it's actually laughable now to think that the two of them together bothered me so much.

At first, as the jealousy started to fade bit by bit, I wondered if I was just forcing myself into not caring as a defense mechanism. Maybe I was, but it evolved into a REAL thing. However I GOT to where I am -- doesn't matter. Again, that good old BOTTOM LINE working in my favor.

When I went to New York to "escape," my ex's father passed away. This was awful because he WAS my in-law. I got along great with his dad, I loved the old guy, and for some reason, I was one of the few people who could easily communicate with him (he'd had a stroke and spoke very poorly). Anyway, my ex came up to New York for the funeral, naturally. I was already there. Seeing my ex at this early stage after breaking up was difficult. It prolonged even more pain. Yet I thought I handled myself pretty well. I acted as a supportive friend for him, I attended the funeral and I gathered with his family. But I held out no illusions that my doing these things meant anything more than giving his father the respect he deserved. I'm truly proud to say that not once did it enter my mind that I would be able to "prove" to my ex that he made a mistake in leaving me, nor did I ever discuss with him getting back together. I simply did the right things, then let him leave again.

Now, my best friend, my gal pal in New York, her situation is more complex, what with the guy she believed she loved already married and also dating someone else, having cheated on his wife twice and her once. What a fucking Jerry Springer scenario! Frankly, this kind of stuff is beneath my best friend, but she's tangled up in it anyway.

This guy keeps communicating with her and acting as if he's a friend. He's actually TELLING her about his dates with this new woman and has asked my friend for advice as well as asked if she wants to remain friends with him.

Give me a break.

He wants his cake, ice cream and party favors all drizzled with chocolate syrup, too. What an asshole. He wants to divorce his wife, stay friends with her and be relieved of alimony and child support -- he wants her blessing in all of this, he wants his new pussy to fuck, and he wants my friend to be HIS friend. Is he kidding or what?

And while my friend KNOWS better and says she will NOT stay friends with him, she KEEPS accepting his phone calls. She claims she wants to "understand" his reasoning behind his actions, but I tend to believe she is just unconsciously hanging on to a thread of hope that if she still talks to him, maybe he'll suddenly see the error of his ways and coming running back to her. I tried to explain to her that even if he did, how could she WANT to be with someone who has demonstrated a lack of love and respect not only for HER but for his WIFE (by cheating on his wife WITH my best friend).

Simply put, my friend is afraid to just let go. The longer she keeps in contact with him, the longer it is going to take her to recover, and the longer she keeps herself in a situation that is beneath her own dignity, the harder it is going to be to gain that all-important dignity BACK.

My advice to her was to cut him off NOW. End all contact and focus on her own life for a change.

For three years, whenever I talked to her or saw her in person, she was distant and distracted and all wrapped up in this guy. Even when she kept it from me that the two of them were still together, I knew better. I could tell easily: she hardly paid attention to anything that didn't involve him. This is common with new relationships, we've all seen it happen: old friends get pushed aside, etc. Now, she's hanging on my every word because she needs a friend -- and that's OK. That's what friends are for, right?

Eight is going to behave like this, too. He's going to focus all his energy into his new partner. It's going to hurt like hell if you try to stay friends with him, if you ask me. You're likely to be ignored or at the very least, disregarded on many levels. The sad fact of the matter is that you are no longer going to come FIRST for him.

That's a crushing blow for anyone, let alone any man who has a powerful male ego.

Eight can't necessarily be blamed for this. It's just how it is. Maybe he really IS in love -- maybe this new guy IS the best thing for him. Maybe not. I can't possibly say; I don't know any of you guys. But you have to give him the benefit of the doubt, just in case.

For all I know, maybe my ex and this other guy are best for each other. The way I see it, two shallow, unromantic, self-centered fuckers really DO deserve each other, don't you think? Maybe I am just playing it off that way because this initially made it easier for me to accept, but I really do think there's some truth to that. Assuming it IS true -- then even if I am lumping their negative traits together and telling myself they deserve each other because of it -- they DO still deserve each other. And for all the things that I think are "wrong" with both of them -- I know in my heart there's at least SOMETHING good there. I wouldn't have stayed with a man for fourteen years if he didn't have a little bit of heart and soul to tap into, right? I hope so, at any rate.

My vote is to just LET GO. If I were you, I'd tell Eight that it's too hard for me right now to try to salvage a friendship out of this, and that while I don't wish to completely remove him from my life forever, at this time I need my space, thanks very much, see ya later. Maybe in five years I'll feel differently, but for now... adiós.

I wouldn't try to CLING to something that will keep setting me back on my path to a new life. I wouldn't GIVE IN and let myself be viewed as a chump. NO WAY could I say: "I wish you the best, I'll always love you, I'll be here for you if you should ever decide you want me again." Fuck that noise.

Just before my ex "officially" left, I went to a motel and stayed a few days there because I couldn't face living in my apartment by myself and looking at all the things around me that I'd accumulated with my ex for fourteen years. I tried a few phone conversations with him, but mostly he wouldn't talk. I talked briefly to the OTHER guy and asked him why he lied to me, why he told me he loved me when he didn't. I never got an answer to that. Finally, my ex made a lame attempt at friendship, telling me that the two of them loved me "like a friend" and would stay friends with me. Yeah, right. As if this was going to happen...

I rejected that offer, and I'm glad I did. You know, I put up with a LOT of shit, and that was the final straw. "You're good enough to be our friend, but we still don't WANT you, we're not in love with you, we don't want sex with you, but hey! Maybe we can go see a movie sometime or play mini-golf!"

I don't think so.

They made an attempt to appeal to my forgiving and gentle nature. They thought I would be SO DESPERATE as to accept ANYTHING AT ALL, whatever little pittance they wanted to dole out to me in dribs and drabs. THEY would get their cake and eat it, too. It was the EASY way out for them -- be his friend, give him a slight nod of recognition now and then, but that's about it. It was a way for them to alleviate their guilty conscience as best they could.

I'd had enough of being treated as second-rate. For the first time in a LONG time, I stood up for myself. All of a sudden I realized how IMPORTANT I am, and I realized also that NO ONE deserves this kind of condescending treatment.

No, no "just friends" bullshit for me. I'd rather be alone than have "friends" like that.

And you know what? Even if I were entirely wrong (and I don't believe I was), it STILL wouldn't have done me any good to be "just friends" with either of them. All that would have happened is that I would have lowered myself into believing that I was only worth a fraction of my real value. This would have been the WORST thing I could have done at that point. At that point, I needed to build my OWN life and focus on ME for a change.

Now, look... this is just SOME of my own personal story. And my vote for "no just friends" is just MY VOTE. I ONLY want to give you something to consider and try to let you see things from a different perspective. When you're in the middle of something like this, more than likely you are seeing things through a haze of pain and loss. You may want to grasp at straws and accept any little bit of flotsam that's offered to you. Just try to see the big picture and focus on that bottom line. But in doing so, NEVER forget that MY choices are my own -- they may not be appropriate for your life or your needs.

Again, it's just about sharing stories and information here. I am NOT telling you that you MUST do anything in particular, OK?

Here's another little metaphor for you, if I may:

If you can't find that field of flowers up in New Hampshire, I know you can easily locate the remains of the Old Man Of The Mountain at Profile Lake. I saw the Old Man two years before he fell, and I'm glad I got to see something like that just in the nick of time. Go up there, look at that mountain. The face might be gone, the Old Man may not be looking down at you anymore, but the MOUNTAIN remains. It isn't going anywhere -- it has only CHANGED.

The thing is, even though it may not look familiar anymore, even though an important piece of it is missing, it's still standing strong and it's still JUST as beautiful as it ever was.

In time, the new look of the mountain will be what new generations come to know and understand. They will have never seen it with the Old Man there. They'll appreciate and respect it for what it is, and what's more, they'll be able to appreciate and respect it for what it WAS at one time.

Just because you've lost a PIECE of yourself doesn't mean the rest of you is going to crumble...

This is just your first day doing "without." It will get easier and easier as time goes by, I promise you that much. Whatever choices you make and whatever road you take, it WILL get better.

And when you get the "anger" stage of your loss, keep in mind that "the best revenge is living well." Go for it. Live WELL. You'll be glad you did.

I also strongly support GuyTopeka's suggestion to entertain mouthfuls of chocolate whenever possible. For me, Haagen Dazs Chocolate Raspberry Torte ice cream works well!

http://www.haagen-dazs.com/segpro.do?productId=109

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I tape 99% of any TV I watch, so as to avoid commercials and because I don't have the luxury of time to spare watching things in real time. Point being, as I turned off a tape last night, an obnoxious segment of Jerry Springer appeared on the screen simply because it happened to be on the channel for which the TV was currently set. There was all the usual dramatics and screeching at high volume, and because this kind of crap annoys me, I did the most sensible thing -- I TURNED IT OFF.

It's easy for those of us who have survived loss and moved on to just tell someone else they should do the same thing -- but the reality of the situation is that this is not always possible for an injured party. Grief is a process, as we have thoroughly discussed here. Additionally, a person who seeks out help and companionship, even online, should not be turned away. While many others will not benefit from the dialogue contained in this thread, the original poster has certainly let it be known that he appreciates the time we all took to lend a hand. Those who have no need of this assistance can certainly skip it, just as I turned off Jerry Springer.

Not all people share the same emotional attachments to partners, lovers, friends, family, etc. For some of us, it's not all that difficult to say goodbye, depending on the person and the circumstance. For others, saying goodbye can be a traumatic experience that shouldn't be taken lightly.

There have been individuals in my life who have indeed moved on -- and a select group of them meant more to me and also less to me than other people with whom I had developed a much deeper bond. A childhood and high school friend, for example, once decided without explanation or any hint of warning that our friendship was over. One day we were eating chicken wings and drinking beer together, the next day he slipped a note into my locker and said "I think it's best we end our friendship." When questioned, he declined to explain his decision. While this was a painful experience, it was one that was easier to get over than other experiences in my life.

The death of my grandparents, my uncle, my cousin, my best friend's parents -- the loss of my ex... even leaving a group of people I had worked with for eight years was more difficult.

Most of us don't want our lives to be filled with anguish, drama and heartache. Most of us don't plan to live within the confines of a Univision soap opera at any given time. But it happens. We're often not proud of these situations -- and it is at times like those, when we can't understand how or why something like this happened, that we need the most support.

I once knew a guy who thought his partner might be leaving him, and he wasn't too happy about this at all. So I gave him a hand during that time. Lucky for him, this never came to pass, but indeed there was some drama there for a short time. It can happen to ANYONE at all.

Food for thought, at any rate.

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I didn't mean to IMPLY that you are uncaring. I guess all I wanted to say is that everyone is different -- it takes each of us different amounts of time to be able to move on, and we each have to handle our situations in whatever way is best for us. My friend in NY -- she's seeing a counselor, talking to me, and making positive changes in her life in areas unrelated to her current situation. For me, I relied on family, friends, and also by making changes to my life which gave me confidence and strength.

Sorry, I was in a temporary bad mood. It was my birthday and it rained, thus killing my yearly "day at the beach" that I always enjoy. So instead I went out and spent money on new clothes, which did wonders to cheer me up.

Also, when I look back at that turbulent time in my own life, I cannot BELIEVE I was involved in something so preposterous and something which was utterly out of character for me. In fact, all the bullshit and the drama and the fighting is beneath me -- or so I want to believe. Yet I felt sucked in and helpless at the time, and it seemed that NOT responding to such bullshit would be to just give up. So I fought back, at least for a little while.

The thing is, this time in my life is embarrassing to me, in retrospect. I am not a Jerry Springer type of dude. I like to think I have my head on straight and that I'm spiritually centered. Most of the time, I think this is true. But every now and then, emotions gain the upper hand. I'm not proud of things I did, things I said, or the manner in which I handled myself -- but admittedly, I AM proud of the end result and who I am NOW. So I guess that maybe it all went down the way it did for a reason; I learned from it. I always used to shake my head and laugh at people being so melodramatic -- until it happened to me. Now I know that sometimes it's unavoidable and that coming out on the other side is more than possible; it's very likely indeed.

Having been in a situation very similar in many ways to that of the original poster, and having my friend also involved in a "love triangle" at this time, I was able to empathize and I wanted to do as much as I could for this guy. Birds of a feather...

Anyway, enough of all that.

Continued good luck and well wishes to WannaBJ. The road ahead isn't easily traveled, but when he finally gets to that rest stop he's going to find that a whole lot of other people have taken refuge there with him. A good night's sleep, the sun rising in the morning and the fog burned away -- things will improve steadily from there.

Peace.

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