Tops and Bottoms--a little advice

CollegeFlyBoi22 · #1 6th June 2004, 02:36 PM

I met a guy out yesterday and we got into a sexual conversation after a few drinks. He insisted that he's a total top and is too big to fit into most guys comfortably. I told him that even though he might be well endowed, that has nothing to do with the fact that he doesn't know how to fuck a guy correctly. I suggested that he try bottoming to see for himself what really feels good, and then try to create those same sensations in the next bottom he fucks. I've always believed that good tops are guys that have bottomed before, and anyone who says they are a strict top and very good at it really has no clue. What do you think?

ScruffyCub · #2 6th June 2004, 05:20 PM

If he were to get fucked himself, and indeed his dick is bigger than most guys, how would it be possible for him to experience what feels good if the guy fucking him has a smaller penis? Wouldn't he need to find a guy with at least the same size pecker as his own in order to find out what it feels like to be fucked with a big cock?

It seems presumptuous to suggest to the man that he has no skills -- since you didn't sleep with him yourself, you're just making assumptions based upon his boast that his allegedly large penis causes discomfort to others. Perhaps this is entirely true.

Perhaps, in fact, the bottoms are partially to blame and also lacking in the necessary skills. Wouldn't an experienced and eager bottom be able to take it? Don't a lot of bottoms seek out bigger and bigger cocks to test their limits?

Good sex requires communication on both ends. If a top guy is causing discomfort to the bottom guy, shouldn't the bottom say something and maybe suggest alternatives based on HIS experience of what has worked well for him in the past? Likewise, wouldn't a good top be mindful of such things and take appropriate measures to maybe change what he's doing if it seems like his bottom isn't having a good time?

I don't think any ONE person is at fault here. I sure don't see any harm in a top guy trying out the other position for the experience of it, and it would be beneficial for a bottom guy to get on top now and then, too. Yet I don't think it is any sort of mandatory requirement to do so.

Heterosexual men are almost exclusively TOPS. While some may enjoy some anal stimulation, it's probably not too often that the female straps on a dildo and has at it. Likewise, a straight man can NEVER know what it feels like to have a vagina even if he DID take it up the ass from time to time. This has no bearing on his sexual prowess -- if he has the DESIRE to please a woman, he's going to do whatever he can to find out exactly how to do that. He's going to watch his partner, he's going to study her reactions as to what feels good, he's going to talk to her during sex, before sex and after sex to find out what she might like next time around or at the present moment. He has no clitoris, he has no vulva, he has no labia -- so how can he REALLY know what feels best unless he makes it his goal to work WITH his female counterpart and find out?

I'd say gay men are fortunate in that they CAN switch positions -- but I don't think it's always necessary. The option exists if someone wants to try it, and that's great. For those who do not... the alternative is always available: COMMUNICATION.

CollegeFlyBoi22 · #3 6th June 2004, 06:30 PM

Very interesting point of view, scruffy. Thanks for sharing.

Denver Horny Boy · #4 6th June 2004, 08:59 PM

I can give a perspective from a well hung versatile guy.

Bottom: I have been in a few situations as a bottom where I couldn't take a fuck because the top insisted on fucking me harder than I could take it or in a position where he is hitting spots that cause me pain instead of pleasure. This has little to do with the size of the dick once you are talking about average size cocks, but the technique of the top. If a guy has a really huge cock I usually like to sit on it 1st and find my comfort zone, then the guy can usually take me in any position with only a few limitations and most big guys are willing, it's usually the ones with average endowments that cause the problem.

Top: I have had a lot of guys have some difficulty taking me I'm 8.5" and moderately thick. I usually try to get the bottom to try what works for me as a bottom if they are having a problem, but I have come across a couple of guys that just couldn't take it no matter what we tried. I've had a lot more guys back out when they see it hard than have tried to take it and couldn't. Since I top a lot more than I bottom, and almost have guys lining up for me to fuck them when I go to the bath's I would tend to think my technique is pretty good.

So in answer to your question CollegeFlyBoi22 I believe that he would benefit from switching positions regardless of the tops cock size.

buttmuncher4u · #5 7th June 2004, 04:42 AM

The saying goes "It take two to tango." The same is true about two guys fucking.

A good bottom will be prepared to take the top he has chosen to sleep with.

A good top will know how to help his partner relax and be patient enough to help him get to the point of opening up and accepting his cock fully.

Perhaps part of the problem is this top guy is dealing with one-night stands that are not used to his large cock? Or he and his partner(s) do not have a lot of time for sex.

If it's possible, they should take their time... enjoy the experience.

A lot of foreplay, some rimming, fingering and LOTS and LOTS (there can't be "too much") lube and just about any bottom can handle just about any top.

I've played around with a lot of guys who have given me the honor of taking their ass for the first time.

While I'm not overly large, I have a solid 7 inches. Letting my partner sit on my cock while I'm on my back works well.. This lets him slide it in at his own pace -- sometimes pulling off completely.

Words of encouragement, reminders to relax and BREATHE helps him get it in. Usually at that point, my partners hole will open enough that I can start giving him a long hard ass pounding that I enjoy providing.

Bottom line: TAKE YOUR TIME and use LOTS OF LUBE.

haspi · #6 7th June 2004, 05:39 AM

Having taken it both ways, I actually think it's better that a top don't try being a bottom. Something about the experience seemed to soften him up. Too humble and too caring. It confused the sexual vibes that I receive.

I like a swaggering top who exudes the male dominance that seem to make your knees weak. I happen to like it rough. No doubt there'll be some pain but it will only make the experience more pleasurable overall. No pain no gain as they say. The pain sharpens the pleasures. After the pain I want the payback when he fucks my brains out. Imagine my disappointment when he gets all caring, slows down and the whole atmosphere of hot nasty sex cooled?

I lost a few good tops this way. Suddenly they would stop and ask about my pain. I had to remind them to keep the fire going. Whatever the pain, a hard cock can always be tolerated when some men can even take a fist up their ass.
Some became versatile and I had to flip with them. Some even became bottoms and I had to fuck them instead.

My biggest turnoff are actually those who call themselves top? but they don't do anal sex. What the fuck is that all about? Just because you read about anal sex and have not had your ass pounded, it don't automatically makes you a top. There are expectations required of a top and if you don't have it then don't spoil it for others.

GayWhiteTrash · #7 7th June 2004, 02:54 PM

When I was in my 20's I believed all that bullshit about being a good bottom to be a good top. I got fucked by big, small and average size dicks and one thing was always constant. I hated getting fucked. So I guess I'm a top by default.

In all honesty the kind of guys I fuck probably don't care how good of a job I'm doing. When you see guys backed up to a gloryhole or bent over a log in the woods begging to get fucked pleasing them is not high on my list of priorities. If I don't do a good enough job for them another dick will be along shortly.

Scruffy made the best point. Heterosexuals don't trade places in order to learn how to please each other.

ScruffyCub · #8 7th June 2004, 04:55 PM

I think we need to keep in mind that not everyone likes the same thing. Haspi is defining "top" as a guy who can rough-fuck the shit out of his ears. This is what he enjoys most. That's all well and good, but to suggest that all tops are EXPECTED to be this way is a little short-sighted, with all due respect... In his mind, this is what he needs and wants from a top partner. Great. But why get pissed at a top guy who is into gentle lovemaking? If the top guy in question misrepresented himself as being able to give it rough but in fact likes something different, I can understand the frustration. But if two guys are discussing getting together and one or both of them fail to communicate their desires, it isn't fair to get riled about it. Make sure you make your wishes clear -- then feel free to get annoyed with a guy who has ignored them.

When I see a porn film with guys fucking rough, I'm utterly turned off. I'll fast-forward through the scene. Likewise if I see guys attacking a dick orally, pounding on it and sucking so hard that their cheeks cave in from the intense suction. This is not what I personally like -- consequently, it makes sense that this would turn me off. So when I am deciding if I should meet someone new, I ALWAYS make it VERY CLEAR what I enjoy. I ask if he likes to suck for a long time. I ask if he enjoys sucking slow and easy. I ask if he enjoys teasing a dick. I ask if he can do more than just move his head up and down. I tell him I like medium to soft pressure. Hey, why SHOULDN'T I seek out decent sex? If I go through all this and a guy STILL ignores my preferences, THEN I get peeved and will give him the heave-ho. If I never discussed any of this with him, I'd have only myself to blame if I got something I didn't want.

I've had a few decent massages in my day, but nothing outstanding. Selfishly, this is possibly the one thing I miss most about no longer living with anyone. Even though my ex hated giving a massage and did it for only a few minutes, sometimes my back is in need of some relaxation. The point is, no one has ever SHOWN me how to give a massage, and no one has ever provided me with one to use as a learning experience to later share with others.

Regardless, I often like to surprise a guy with a good rubdown. I have oils handy, if he wants that, or I'll do it without. For some reason, I'm fantastic at doing this. EVERY guy, without exception, has given me countless compliments. Several have asked if I'm a professional massage therapist. A few have suggested I should become one or start to charge for services. Bragging? A little. Why not? I'm good at it.

When I went to New Hampshire to meet my buddy, it was easy to tell the kind of guy he was: kind, gentle, caring, emotional, loves nature, respects life, treats other people like gold. His personality TAUGHT me what I believed he might like sexually. Turns out I was right. One evening we came home from a wonderful dinner, lit several candles in his bedroom, broke out the massage oil. I had him lay down naked and I told him to forget about his dick and not worry about sex; we'd get to that later. I talked to him quietly as I massaged every inch of his body. I gave him suggestions for putting himself in a beautiful, peaceful place, up in the mountains. For at least an hour, it was all about HIM. Later, he told me no one in his life had ever cared enough to make him feel that good, and that it was the best experience of that kind which he'd ever had. That was really nice to hear.

Yet when I was about nineteen or so, I met a dude while cruising the streets just before sunrise back in New York. We hooked up and went to the lake, where we sat on some rocks and watched the sunrise. The guy took his shirt off and I started to rub his shoulders. He said: "What are you trying to do, put me to sleep? Pull out your dick, man." Here was a guy who had no interest in an intimate massage. He had to TELL me what he wanted, so I obliged. Having my dick in his mouth was fine with me, but had he wanted more, I'd have provided that, too.

I've also met up with men in more recent times who make it a point to tell me NOT to touch them: they want to be treated like dirt and used as a cocksucking pig. Hey, OK... I won't physically HURT anyone, but I can switch over and be a nasty motherfucker if this gets the guy off. No massage for him!

So no one taught me how to give a massage, and no one ever gave me one good enough to give me any pointers. I simply LISTENED to my partner, paid attention to the kind of guy he was, and took it from there on my own.

As for label confusion -- eh, well... we should be used to that by now. I don't tell anyone I'm a top, I tell them I'm dominant. If I WERE to fuck, I'd be on top: this is what turns me on. When I watch porn, I imagine myself as the guy doing the fucking. I don't get a thrill from thinking about ME being fucked. I can't tell you how many guys with the word "top" in their screen name contact me looking for a dick to suck. I always tell them I am not in the market for a top, and invariably they tell me this is fine with them, they just want a nice cock to eat. No problem, man... come on over...

buttmuncher4u · #9 7th June 2004, 06:52 PM

Hetrosexuals don't each have the same equipment, so it's kinda hard for them to trade places -- so that point is really moot.

Further more, I guess it depends on what you're talking about when you talk tops and bottoms.

If I'm talking about a partner (aka: lover) then I want to make sure I give him what he desires.

If I'm talking about some slut backed up to a gloryhole or laying over a log in the woods begging to get fucked... it's all about me getting my rocks off.

ScruffyCub · #10 8th June 2004, 06:40 PM

It's not a moot point at all, but you are entitled to your opinion and differences of opinions don't require great debate all of the time.

It's an important point to keep in mind because regardless of the differences in genitalia, it proves that even for those who can't ever possibly know or understand what it feels like, many individuals are capable of LEARNING from their partner through communication and perception. Gay men can do the same thing.

I also agreed that it certainly is a plus for gay men in that they CAN switch positions -- giving us yet another way to learn about each other that heterosexuals cannot accomplish. I just don't believe it is the ONLY way to learn how to please a partner.

I rather like it that gay folks have this bit of ammunition in their sexual arsenal. Too bad some of us don't bother to ever use it. Frankly, while we've all heard that a man knows how to please another man because he has the same equipment, this isn't always true: we've all had our share of BAD sexual partners. Usually this is because they don't care enough to pay attention to our individual wants and needs which vary from their own.

If a top who likes to "rabbit fuck" a bottom switches places, he may enjoy BEING rabbit fucked. That's fine -- it's what he likes. Yet it STILL won't do him any good to experience both sides of being rabbit fucked if he meets a partner who wants a slower, more intimate encounter; he won't comprehend the fact that someone else likes something different if he doesn't have an open mind.

My massage example is another way to understand that anyone can learn how to please a partner even if they have never experienced something themselves. It's about tapping into what the other guy wants. Yet if I felt that I HAD TO give a guy a massage EVERY time in order to feel satisfied myself, I'd steer clear of men who weren't receptive to this.

Anyway, I think CollegeFlyBoi had some valid ideas, but these needed to be expanded upon. He was also very polite and seemed interested in the various responses, all of which I feel hold some truths in and of themselves. Taken together, there's actually quite a lot to be learned here.

As for those sluts who are bent over a log and begging to get fucked -- hey, guess what? That's what they WANT. So even if for someone else it is all about getting his rocks off, that bent-over slut is STILL getting what he enjoys most. Even a casual disregard for him, log-splinters and all, is sexually satisfying for the guy. So... by carelessly fucking him and leaving him laying on a log in the woods with cum dripping down his legs -- the end result has been to satisfy the dude EXACTLY as he wanted. The guy doing the fucking may not have thought about it this way, but he has actually communicated with and learned from his partner du jour, doing what was expected and walking away after.

tevaboi · #11 14th June 2004, 12:00 PM

I think there are TWO valid ways for a top to gain experience.

1.) A top can learn by getting fucked and learning from experienced tops.

2.) A top can learn by fucking bottoms who are willing to coach him on what works.

Personally, I learned to top by bottoming first. It made me realize how important it is to feel for the ass muscles to relax, etc.

Also, I recently taught a top how to fuck after he almost killed me the first time. Since he wanted to get together again, I told him the only way I would do it is if he was willing to listen and learn. He turned out to be a great student and has told me that he has started to ask other bottoms what they like and dislike. He appears to be developing his skills quite quickly.

In think that any guy can eventually strech his asshole to painlessly accomodate any sized dick. This doesn't mean they will be sexually turned on by it -- it may feel like a medical procedure -- but it won't be painful if the guy has spent enough time (years in some cases) training his hole.