I'm curious to know if it is illegal for two guys to be in one booth/room in an adult video place? Live in TX.

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The short answer is: in most places, yes.

If the place you frequent has all sorts of signage stating that loitering, sharing booths, sexual misconduct, etc, is not allowed, then in your locale it is illegal.

And you know as well as I, that if you see guys sharing booths, engaging in sexual misconduct, etc, then it is very unlikely the management gives a damn about upholding the local ordinance.

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Interesting...

There are signs stating that loitering etc. is not allowed, however
I see guys coming out of booths together all the time. I guess the question is, if an undercover cop sees two guys leaving a room together, can he arrest based on only this?


If the place you frequent has all sorts of signage stating that loitering, sharing booths, sexual misconduct, etc, is not allowed, then in your locale it is illegal.

And you know as well as I, that if you see guys sharing booths, engaging in sexual misconduct, etc, then it is very unlikely the management gives a damn about upholding the local ordinance.


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Horror stories abound of police harrassing cruisers, whether or not the police had any legal right to do what they did. So, yes, you could be arrested by a police officer just because you exited a booth at the same time as another cruiser. Whether or not your arrest would stick is another question best handled by the most competent lawyer you can't afford.

Check out the CFS link on the home page for your area. See if anyone has posted a "heads up" concerning police activity. Post the question on your state board here. The answers you get will give you a good idea of the likelihood of undercover or blatant police activity in the place you cruise based on previous activities.

This has been said over and over here but bears repeating. You have to live with the consequences of your actions. If you don't feel comfortable sharing a booth, don't do it. If you feel the place is crawling with undercover officers, don't go there. Never mind what you see others doing.

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Ninety-five percent of the males arrested for violating local ordinances either didn't know there was a local ordinance or ignored the local ordinance. The remaining five percent who did not get arrested were either lucky or voluntarily complied with the ordinance.

If John Q. Public and/or another anonymous male are/is arrested for violating a local ordinance (e.g., loitering, sharing a booth, sexual misconduct, etc.), they usually experience a temporary learning disability -- not exercising their right to remain silent. If an undercover law enforcement officer does effect the arrest of anyone upon probable cause a local ordinance was violated, always exercise your right to remain silent and retain a competent lawyer to advise you of all of your rights.

Be and remain polite towards any law enforcement officer who effects an arrest. You will be required to provide personal identification of yourself. You are not obligated to give up your right to remain silent on any question that goes beyond establishing your identity. Remain silent and obtain a competent lawyer. If you cannot afford a competent lawyer of your own choosing, a legal counsel will be appointed to represent you. Under no circumstance should you answer any questions or make any statements without competent legal counsel.

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Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves. And, under a just God, cannot long retain it.

-- Abraham Lincoln

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Educate me, guys.

What law is violated by sharing a booth?

I was always under the impression that the signs posted in video stores were manufactured by the makers of the video booth equipment -- in fact, I'm SURE of it since the signs are all identical. At least in VGR Systems arcades.

So... these signs could be made available from the company for those areas where it IS illegal to have two in a booth -- and the store can elect to display them or not. Unless local laws say they MUST display the signs because they contain not only the admonition against two in a booth but also against sexual activity and loitering, both of which are illegal everywhere.

It was also my assumption that two in a booth reflects the need for the store to make more MONEY. When two share a booth, if there were no sex at all, the store is simply losing money. THAT is certainly not illegal, though any business can establish any rules they want (mostly) to eject people who do not patronize the establishment or are a disturbance to others.

I COMPLETELY agree that cops can pretty much bust you and make up anything they want -- they have done it to me! Admittedly, I screwed up big time once and gave them all they needed without having to make up charges, but I've also been actually innocent and been busted just the same. And BMG is right: I was stupid and said too much. THAT will never happen again!

So... yes... you sure CAN be busted, though generally speaking, most ABSs are "safe" most of the time. You can never be too careful, though.

So my question remains: what local laws might there be that would make it actually ILLEGAL to share a booth? I think a defense attorney could easily get this kicked.

I can understand that exposing your dick through a Buddy Window can have legal ramifications -- the presence of the window itself doesn't mean that it's OK to show cock.

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I was thinking the same Scruff, what laws are being broken? Does it become illegal to share a booth just by virtue of a sign being posted? Do cities and counties actually have laws on the books regulating the number of guys that can occupy a booth in an ABS?

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Cities, municipalities and states have on the books all sorts of laws relating to illegal sexual conduct.

In the early 80's for, of all things, a college speech class, we had to research local laws relating to particular things, ie. marriage, divorce, inheritence, and sexual conduct.

Came to find out that every sexual activity was illegal except for the missionary position between a man and his legally married spouse. If they had sex in any other position, or enjoyed it, they were breaking the law. (especially if they had sex standing up as it could lead to dancing) The wording of the laws were archaic. The phrase "if a man were to come upon a woman as the beasts of the field do" sticks in my mind. Made me think of a petticoated lass sitting on a park bench having some bowler-topped gentleman crawling on all fours toward her, only for him to be arrested by a mustashioed policeman for "coming upon a woman as the beasts in the fields do".

Anyway, there exist many archaic laws on the books today that are largely ignored until it comes to arresting cruisers. And these same laws have been used to shut down ABS businesses because these businesses have "allowed" illegal activities to occur on their premises.

Several years back, in St. Joseph, MO, the local authorities successfully shut down a local ABS using the old laws still on the books that spoke against people having sex in public. The ABS was grandfathered in, protected against the subsequent ordinances that were passed to prevent any new ABS starting up. So the local DA worked on driving the business out with legal challenges. It worked too. The owners found themselves in court defending themselves against a variety of offenses. They won most all of the suits and claims, but shut down because of the expense of all the legal battles. Plus the DA came out and said that anyone setting foot on their property could be considered as having committed a crime. He was proven full of bull, but the owners still ended up moving elsewhere and opening up a new store.

After following this story for the couple of years it took to unfold, I pretty much lost all desire to ever be an ABS owner.

So while there may not be laws specifically speaking of the illegality of two guys sharing a booth, I am sure there exists some law somewhere that could be twisted to be interpreted as to pertain to two guys sharing a booth.

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Local ordinances are law because of their effect.

There are zoning ordinances which have the effect of law. There are public health ordinances which have the effect of law. There are XYZ ordinances which have the effect of law.

Local ordinances are peculiar to certain locales. Some ordinances, such as prohibiting the sale of alcohol beverages during certain times on a particular day of the week, are geographically limited as to jurisdiction (e.g., town versus county).

Ordinances are used for zoning purposes. In many locales, you can't build or operate an adult bookstore within a certain distance from a church or public school. In other locales, ordinances may restrict use of public parks during the hours of darkness after sunset and until sunrise or during the hours posted. <<<===== Scruffy can speak to this issue.

My point is that an ordinance is a local law -- be it a city, town or a county-wide ordinance. If you frequent a particular ABS, don't assume you can't be arrested for being in a booth with someone else. Being in a booth with someone else is not a crime if there is no ordinance which prohibits it. However, it may be sufficient to establish probable cause a crime did occur if an undercover law enforcement can prove a state felony statute was violated. Remember, the burden of proof rests with the state and not the individual. It is highly unlikely an undercover officer would witness a crime out of his sight unless you do something like admit you were fooling around or something to that fact. Keep silent, stupid. You're not obligated to help an undercover officer by making a statement against your own interest. Right?

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Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves. And, under a just God, cannot long retain it.

-- Abraham Lincoln

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That's pretty much what I thought; thanks, guys.

May I "dumb it down" for those who want a "just the facts, ma'am" type of answer?

No actual crime is committed by sharing a booth -- simply two people standing next to each other. Sexual activity would have to be proved OR a local ordinance would have to be in place which would consequently make it illegal to share a booth.

Logic would tell me that local ordinances against two people sharing a video booth -- however archaic and obscurely worded -- would almost certainly (ALMOST) not be much of a consideration. The very fact that a video store EXISTS would seem to indicate that it only does so at the will of the community. If ordinances existed which prohibited behaviors within the business that are NOT illegal in and of themselves -- odds are good these ordinances would be regularly enforced or the store would be closed down in due time.

YES, some stores pop up and there's controversy in a community. That just happened here in WNY in a suburb a few months ago -- and the place wasn't even a cruise spot -- just sex toys that offended a rural community.

You could be a very unlucky cruiser and hit a newer establishment that has squeaked by the rules of the community only to find that someone has found an ancient law which puts the store in violation of SOMETHING or other -- and you just happen to be inside cruising when the whole damn place is busted. But really... figure the odds.

The bottom line on ABSs, at least to my way of thinking and also as it appears the majority of the community has already determined as evidenced by message board postings, casual conversations between cruisers, and info in the CFS Sex Listings is:

Anywhere you cruise you take a risk. Yet some places are "safer" than others, at least as far as the long arm of the law is concerned. You are more likely to get caught OUTSIDE -- and it is FAR easier to prove misconduct when you are witnessed by a cop in the act. Bookstores and bathhouses are generally considered much safer and there are fewer reports of busts at these places, most especially bathhouses. Yet busts at bookstores DO happen.

Just use your common sense. The SIGNS in the bookstores are generally all the same and pretty much mean nothing unless the store staff elects to enforce them. Many stores DO enforce them -- which puzzles cruisers as to the existence of the store in the first place! Most cruisers STOP patronizing these places once they figure out that all they will get there is forty-five seconds of a bad porno flick for each token they deposit. A few gents will stop in, masturbate and leave, but... the video booths won't be a source of revenue for the store. The signs are perfunctory -- they state the STORE'S compliance with local laws -- but they serve no real function. Any store can get shut down -- doesn't matter WHAT sign they display. We seem to think these days that just because there is a disclaimer poster that all is well -- and we also seem to think that there MUST be a disclaimer for EVERYTHING.

This is where that good, old fashioned common sense comes in.

Observe the place you are in and the behavior of others. If men do NOT hook up, if clerks hassle the patrons, if it "feels" wrong -- be extra cautious.

I was in a place a few weeks ago and walked out of a booth with another dude after we had both tried (at least a little bit) to be halfway quiet about the fun we were having. As the door swung open, there was a guy standing up, leaning against another booth, getting sucked by a complete NAKED guy while a girl stood nearby and provided a running commentary. Another dude was standing there watching, jerking off. MY buddy remarked to me: "Tell me again WHY we were trying to be quiet?"

The point is -- when you see blatant sex going on all around you, odds are good a particular store is well-known for that and thusly it has a good reputation for being left alone. Yet understand that ANYTHING can happen at ANY time. If you are unlucky enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, at the exact moment a community decides to take action against an established business because some old fuck has found an old blue law on the books that he wants to use to go on the attack... well, sucks to be you!

And, of course, for the record... BMG's right. I was "officially" charged with trespassing in a public park after hours. A bullshit charge if there ever was one. But the cops KNEW I was a fag because I was a dumb kid about twelve years ago and I TOLD them as much. They'd never have bothered to bust a straight dude or straight woman for mistakenly wandering into a park after 10 PM. But a queer guy? Of course they're going to bust me. They had set up a sting that night to catch people having sex in the park and they got NOTHING out of it -- except me. The resources of about twelve cops who were on the scene surely could NOT be wasted. They needed to come back to Central Booking with SOMEONE.

NEVER say ANYTHING. Give your name and address and that's IT. Repeat the phrase: "I want to speak to my attorney," over and over. Admit nothing. If immediately arraigned, plead not guilty.

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I believe it's a Wisconsin law that ABS can not have booths with complete doors. They either must be open at the lower half, or doorless. On place between Eau Claire and Chippewa Falls outsmarted them somewhat--they made a simple, doorless maze where one walks in, goes straight back, turns right and then heads back where the machines are located. They have signs posted about only one in a booth, but I assume they didn't go to all this trouble just for the fun of it (given AIDS, I don't "do" casual sex but I will stop, view and give "Old Faithful" a workout by myself).
I've often wondered why ABS owners haven't challenged the law on the basis of discrimination. If regular doors are not allowed where people might have sex, should not hotels, motels, along with cars and trucks, at least be required to have half doors?

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I came across those same type of booths in Erie, PA. not long ago.

When I was driving up here to NY, I took with me a printout of ABS locations from CFS (and I can't thank the site enough for that -- I had a great time on the road). So I stopped in Erie to check out a couple places.

I had never seen booths with no doors before. They were constructed with extra side panels forming a maze-like entrance. This afforded SOME degree of privacy but still allowed anyone to walk right in on you. Also made it much harder for me to dismiss the dudes in whom I had no interest.

I have no idea if PA law requires this or not. I may check out an ABS in Pittsburgh on the way home (less than two weeks now!), but I really hate Pittsburgh traffic and West Virginia is so close that I'd probably be better off driving to Morgantown and having my fun there instead.

The place in Erie was packed with guys. But it seemed like very few were doing much of anything. The guys I personally hooked up with wouldn't go any further than to jerk off a bit. They seemed nervous. I can't blame them; I was nervous with the lack of doors, too. There was lots of cum on the floors. This is certainly common in an ABS and can be the result of actual sex, but I just got a vibe that the usual encounter in this particular place resulted in a fast bit of mutual masturbation with little else.

I've also mentioned a now-defunct bathhouse that had signs posted reading: "The introduction of semen into the oral or anal cavity is strictly prohibited."

Figure the odds of THAT being taken seriously.

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These laws are an effort to make it so difficult to do business that the ABS can't make enough money to remain in business. In just the last two weeks, a federal judge upheld a local ordinance here in Indianapolis that ABS must close at midnight (used to be open 24/7) and not at all on Sundays (we also can't buy package liquor or a motor vehicle on Sunday. What a backward fucking state I live in). Over the years, they've also gone the no door route, only one in a both, ect. Along with zoning restrictions, the number of ABS in Indianapos has dropped from about a dozen 20 years ago to only 2.

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