I know that bareback sex feels fantastic, and there are a few *good* friends that I feel safe with. But it's a little frightening to me to meet someone in an anonymous setting who wants me to stick it in without protection. What are guys thinking?

A couple of weeks ago I had a VERY hot encounter with a guy at my favorite cruising park. We wound up totally naked in the woods and sucking and rimming each other. Then he pulls lube out of his pants pocket and starts to lube me up and pull me towards his asshole. I admit that I wanted to do it but I was so anxiety-ridden about the barebacking that I lost my erection. End of the fun.

Now, I know that I am HIV neg, I got tested just a few weeks ago. I am sure it would have been safe for me to fuck him. But I have to wonder about someone who is so indiscriminate about who he allows to fuck him that maybe he's already carrying disease, if not HIV then something else? Why should I do anything with him? And it's too bad too, because this dude was HOT! Not like the typical park cruising guys, and I include myself in that.

Of course, I guess I can't complain too much because there are guys at the park whose background I don't know, and I still get into some heavy non-anal fun with them. Just because they haven't had me fuck them doesn't mean they haven't had a long line of bare dicks in them only moments before.

Anybody have any thoughts about this?

(It may be that this kind of post is inappropriate for this board. Sorry, but I don't know where else to discuss this. It may not be so important to me if my best friend hadn't had just one night of carelessness and wound up HIV poz.)

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Edmond, I think that most everyone out here will be in agreement with you that there are risks with bareback anal and each person has to decide whether they are ready for the consequences of those risks.

Seems that what you're questioning is whether or not you have put yourself at risk with "non-anal fun" (sucking, rimming). Right?

Let's sideline the other diseases (Hep-C, syph, etc.), and focus on the biggee, HIV (although some will argue that Hep-C is just as big ... and you KNOW that you can get that (pretty easily) through rimming, RIGHT?) Anyway ... I was just told by an HIV educator that HIV is likely NOT tranferable through rimming (difficult/impossible to transmit through either saliva or feces. I'd love for other PROFESSIONALS to weigh-in on that one, 'cause it goes counter to what the CDC publishes ... but they take into account theoretical possibilities, rather than probabilities). The same goes with oral sex, according to popular thinking. Most educators admit that if you have a healthy mouth (no 'entry points' via recent dental work or lack thereof) that you are at very low risk.

What you have to evaluate (along with the rest of us), is 'low-risk' worth it? Depends on you and those you love, I guess.

I'd invite PROFESSIONALS to comment (nicely) on the body of this post.

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Thanks, BayShore, for a well thought-out reply. In response to your subject line, I didn't really have a question, I was just making an observation, and, I guess, hoping to raise some consciousness.

I am aware of the other risks, such as hepatitis (although it's my understanding that hep C is rare and can only be acquired through incidences with shared blood. Anyone who enjoys clean rimming or other anal play, as I do, should be aware of and vaccinated for Hep A & B, as I have).

The urgency for diseases other than hepatitis and HIV is not quite as high, since they are not life-threatening, but no one wants to catch those either. But you're right, we seem to weigh those risks and choose to take the chance anyway when we engage in anonymous sex.

In the experience I related yesterday, my concern was not for catching HIV from this young man, because I know it's rare in that circumstance. And I also feel confident, from the results of my test a few weeks ago, that I would not have infected him if I had carried through with his invitation. What I didn't express very well, in the haste of composing my first message, is that I was more wondering what kind of sense of self-worth a person must have if he is so eager to let anyone bareback him; does someone like that have a death-wish? Or is it just plain ignorance?

Secondarily, I also have to wonder what other risks he has thrown himself open to. If "the biggie," HIV, holds no concern for him, then one would have to expect that nothing else does either. I have to feel sorry for someone like that.

I think this discussion has made me more aware of my role in that encounter. It may be that my dick-limping anxiety was ultimately borne out of my own self-respect.... the thought that maybe, if I carried through with fucking him bareback, it would place me in the position of exploiting the guy's own poor self-image or carelessness or stupidity or ignorance or, or, or.... or whatever shortcoming he has that compels him to bend over and spread his cheeks for the next dick. I could have said, "Oh, yeah, baby, give it to me," and plunged right in -- and that thought really turns me on -- but what kind of person would that make me? I'd like to think that I am better than that.

In fairness I have to admit that the thought of being on the receiving end of that woodsy scenario is pretty arousing. But I have more self-respect and love for life than to take the risk of destroying all that.

Sheesh! Why does sex have to be so complicated??

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Thanks for the reply.

If a guy spreads his cheeks without protection, I generally assume that he's already poz. Of course, it's still risky for him, because a compromised immune system makes him more susceptible to other nasties, including the possibility of picking up a strain of HIV that doesn't respond to his meds.

You're right-on with the Hep-A and -B vaccines, but there have been incidences of sexual transmission of Hep-C. Not NECESSARILY via rimming, though, that's Hep-A. My bad. I should pay attention to what I'm typing. I have a non-IV-using, non-blood-taking, condom-wearing friend who got Hep-C SOMEWHERE ... and he attributes it to rimming his Hep-C-infected partner. But who knows? Statistically it's 'insignificant' (unless you're him, of course).

From my perspective, when I meet something that doesn't play safe, it's impossible for him to say that he's negative (that includes YOU!). You TESTED NEGATIVE yesterday, but if you've played unsafe in the last 3 months, or since the test ... well, you get the picture. I crack up at people that'll say "it's okay, I just tested negative" and are ready to jam their cocks up my (possibly infected) butt. Which is cool, if that's what they want to do, but don't tell the next guy that you 'just tested negative'.

Okay ... back to the fun stuff !!!

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Bayshore, before this discussion ends I do want to point out that it doesn't escape me that the HIV test only confirms neg status up to the previous three months and not since. You're right that people live in a fool's paradise who believe that their neg results completely clears them of risk. I should not have said, in my first post, that I *know* I am HIV neg. I acknowledge that no one who has any sexual contact with another person, particularly in an anonymous setting, can be fully confident of their status.

What I should have said is that my confidence in my own disease-free status is high -- though not 100% -- because of my habit of playing safer, and because I choose to make myself aware of the risks.

It should also be pointed out, just as a matter of background, that even though I enjoy cruising, I am not one who will swallow just any dick or lick any ass that becomes available. Anonymous sex is one thing, but indiscriminant anonymous sex is another.

I think your point that anyone who opens himself up for barebacking should be assumed to be already poz is well-taken and probably pretty good advice.

Thanks for a good exchange. If this helps raise the consciousness of anyone else who reads this thread, we may not know how many lives will be saved. Me, drama queen? No, just pragmatist.

p.s. Love your pic!

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What strikes me most in your post Edmund is the inquiry to your sexual partners self esteem and what accommodating his request to fuck him bareback would say about you as a person. Nice job in pointing that out by the way.

I’d hesitate to say it’s pure ignorance at this stage in the game regarding HIV infection and would lean towards an inability to negotiate safer sex. They've probably come to terms with the risks to their health that can come with that behavior, if they’re not already dealing with that as you said he’s probably already poz if he’s behaving that way.

Our community tends to shed a lot of judgment on guys who behave this way and this is where I think we need to be careful.

HIV infection still carries a social stigma because it’s contracted via sexual contact and our culture to this day is still uncomfortable with sex. This attitude even leaks into the gay community with “sudden� concern for our partners health, but only in regards to HIV specifically. We are constantly killing ourselves with alcohol abuse, tobacco use, the processed food we eat and with other addictions. The thing is, we never stop to ask “what kind of self worth do these other guys have who are engaging in other forms of self destructive behavior?� If we’re going to be “so concerned�, well, why stop at HIV? I think it’s just easy to one, cast judgment as the other forms of self destruction are socially acceptable, and two, make ourselves feel better as we smoke, drink etc., to say, “Hey, at least I use condoms.� True, guys who practices safe sex probably won’t die via HIV, but what about lung cancer or heart and liver disease? Both of which are forms of “self inflicted� disease, yet, the means to those are “socially acceptable“, where taking a raw dick up your ass is not.

The feeling sorry for this guy and feeling as if you're exploiting him is too much for me to jump on board with, but I can see your point.

Yeah, it's always good to bring observations like this up as it can give everyone lot's to think about in regards to their own sexual risk management.

That is a nice pic Bayshore ;-)

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MascGuy, I certainly agree with your concern that the gay community is no less at risk from substance abuse as from STDs. It makes me sad to see young men giving their lives away to cigarettes, booze and drugs.

The gay culture seems to be a naturally self-destructive one, presumably brought on by the pressure of society to fit into a heterosexual template and not being able to meet that requirement. "I'm doomed by institutionalized homophobia and cultural stereotypes anyway, so why not just give myself over to all the other vices that are out there?" At least that's how I see it.

Upon first reading your message I disagreed with your suggestion that substance abuse is equivalent to HIV and hepatitis as a destructive force. At first I thought they are very different in that HIV is a communicable disease, and those other activities are not. (Not that I would defend those activities either, because I do not.) But after giving it some thought I believe it's not at all an inaccurate comparison, since, like those who smoke and drink and overeat, taking a potentially deadly dick in one's ass is no less a choice than taking a potentially deadly drag on a cigarette, or a potentially deadly snort of coke.

It all boils down to the choices we make. We are all guilty of making poor choices somewhere in our lives. The trick is to strive to make fewer poor choices. But not too much at the expense of enjoying life.

Thanks, man. This is a good discussion.

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Exactly Edmund, it is totally about "choices", no matter what the self destructive issue at hand is.

The only danger here is that some people are quick to shame others in their struggles by saying, well, you "chose" to do that. While that's true, compassion helps when it comes to helping others make better choices.

What's always great is when people who have suffered consequences from bad choices use that suffering as a means to inform others so they don't make the same choice.

Yes, good discussion indeed!

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I think it's easy for some choices to become addictions. Smoking, eating, drinking, and fucking are some of the most addictive things around -- especially if a person already has other problems.

Note: I am not saying that one's problems are not of that person's own doing. I am saying life is hard for a lot of people, and that can impair good judgement. As a person ends up farther down "oops road" the more difficult it becomes to choose wisley.

Damn where's that pizza, I'm almost out of cigarettes and beer. (joke - well, sort of.)

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