[KewlDewd66]

It seems that a number of openly gay guys go to quite some length to shame the BI dudes.

They are unreliable. They are in closet. They are cheaters. They are all gay guys in closet waiting to come out. They'll drop their guy as soon as an available female shows up. They are bending under the societal pressure. The list rolls on and on.

Frankly, IMHO, this is rubbish. I knew that I was bi and hooking up with other dudes. And I know that there are bi-guys I am hooking up these days.

Well, I am neither trying to marry them nor start a monogamous LTR with each and every dude I hook up. I have never felt that it was my duty to be anyone's moral guardian. Equally so, I have always stopped short of judging other dudes and their actions.

I am happy to say that I grew up in a liberal environment where men understood that the dude is simply trying to get some. More often getting some from a fellow dude was easier, simpler and faster, so a guy went for it. Whatever floats his boat...

KD

[infopop]

Well, I agree.

This is slightly related. I've re-posted separately a review of a place in the Sex Listings where the review had complained about a formerly gay space now catering to non-gay people. In this review "heterosexuals, and a previous reviewer had said, "the straight hip crowd and lesbians."

I responded to the new review that was published last week, and made a copy available at http://web.cruisingforsex.com/bb/cru...over-time.html.

The idea of shaming bi men is, to me, just as senseless, albeit a much older issue, as trying to turn back the clock to a time when gay bars, restaurants, and "gayborhoods" were thriving in many cities.

Why not accept reality an work with it instead of complaining about societal changes that are a natural consequence of the change in our own community and broader society? And in the case of bi men, if they are appealing and want to have sex, bring 'em on!

[KewlDewd66]

Originally Posted by infopop

The idea of shaming bi men is, to me, just as senseless, albeit a much older issue, as trying to turn back the clock to a time when gay bars, restaurants, and "gayborhoods" were thriving in many cities.

Why not accept reality an work with it instead of complaining about societal changes that are a natural consequence of the change in our own community and broader society? And in the case of bi men, if they are appealing and want to have sex, bring 'em on!

The interesting bit here is that an increasing number of gay men seem to believe that every guy cruising for sex out there will fully and truthfully disclose his marital/relationship status, sexual orientation, etc., for them to have sex with him.

I agree with the idea that being bisexual IS a sexual orientation per se. Yet, if a bi-guy cruises a gay venue, and is obviously looking for sex with other men, his bisexuality is of hardly any importance to anyone involved. The guy is either attractive enough for you to mess around with or he ain't. His other life arrangements are really only his business.

---
Yup, I, too, mourn the loss of thriving gayborhoods, with many of its cool bars, clubs, spas, movie theaters, Bookstores, etc.. But there is no way that anyone can go back in time.

How many owners can really afford to run a business that is not making any money or is even losing it, for the guys to enjoy themselves? I am sure that in some cases, profit maximization was the only concern. But this is what the businesses are all about...

KD

[jonn3]

Originally Posted by KewlDewd66

The interesting bit here is that an increasing number of gay men seem to believe that every guy cruising for sex out there will fully and truthfully disclose his marital/relationship status, sexual orientation, etc., for them to have sex with him.

It is funny how they assume everyone is going to be honest about their status. At an adult bookstore here that caters to gays you see an awful lot of mini-van's with car seats in the back....

Some of the younger guys do not seem to understand that just a generation before them saying "I am gay" was not just a major step - but could lead to all sorts of problems in life.

I know a number of guys that played around when younger - grew up - got married - had kids - but still long for those days of sex for sex sake.

Originally Posted by KewlDewd66

I agree with the idea that being bisexual IS a sexual orientation per se. Yet, if a bi-guy cruises a gay venue, and is obviously looking for sex with other men, his bisexuality is of hardly any importance to anyone involved. The guy is either attractive enough for you to mess around with or he ain't. His other life arrangements are really only his business.

There are some guys that are truly bisexual - but there are also guys that found that easier to accept back in the days than admitting they were gay.

I have heard some guys say "well he says he is bi but I think he is just scared to admit he is gay" and in some cases I am sure that is true.

But I always find it funny when I find gays doing things like bi-shaming or being so judgmental. The gay guys are involved in a lifestyle that very recently was illegal in many states (and I think is still illegal in some) but yet they are so quick to judge others.

As KewlDewd said - we have no way of knowing what someones relationship situation is or what sort of agreements they may have with their partners.

[CapitalUncut]

Since the 1980s, I have been outspoken that we are only screwing ourselves by creating a culture of "correction" and shaming. Shaming each other is every bit as harmful as the rejection and condemnation society levels at gays. If we are going to claim higher moral authority, then we damn well had better be living and breathing it. That means no judging or shaming people because they live their lives differently from you, period.

I, too, came from the time when men never questioned other men about a hookup and getting off. "A gentleman never tells" was the law of the land. If you were at a rest area, public restroom, park, or particular establishments, it was strictly about draining balls. If you weren't into someone for whatever reason, you simply did not have contact with them and that was it. One certainly didn't launch into tirades about their home life, or berate them for not meeting a particular standard of physique or aesthetics.

Men of all ages who have bought-in to this appalling culture of shaming and political correctness need to chill the f* out. Lose the bitchy high school style council drama queen mentalities. Rediscover the pleasure of just being a man and getting off with another man.

[jonn3]

Originally Posted by CapitalUncut

Men of all ages who have bought-in to this appalling culture of shaming and political correctness need to chill the f* out. Lose the bitchy high school style council drama queen mentalities. Rediscover the pleasure of just being a man and getting off with another man.

We all have our boundaries - people or things that we will not do - but as you said - you look the other way.

But on some of the boards you see so many being so judgmental about married guys that like a little M/M on the side and about out of shape guys or older guys - and some of these people go out of their way to post about how what they are doing is "wrong".

I just keep thinking these are gay guys looking for sex with other guys - an activity that is still far from universally accepted - and they are busy being judgmental about a guy that is married / older / out of shape / etc. but looking to do the same thing.

There are lots of activities and people that go WAY beyond what I am comfortable with - and sure I judge in my own mind - but I (try) to keep my mouth shut.

[KewlDewd66]

Originally Posted by jonn3

We all have our boundaries - people or things that we will not do - but as you said - you look the other way.

But on some of the boards you see so many being so judgmental about married guys that like a little M/M on the side and about out of shape guys or older guys - and some of these people go out of their way to post about how what they are doing is "wrong".

I just keep thinking these are gay guys looking for sex with other guys - an activity that is still far from universally accepted - and they are busy being judgmental about a guy that is married / older / out of shape / etc. but looking to do the same thing.

There are lots of activities and people that go WAY beyond what I am comfortable with - and sure I judge in my own mind - but I (try) to keep my mouth shut.

We all have eyes and ears. Some folks are more endowed with their cognitive abilities than the others, though. So, we judge. And that's fine. We should be absolutely free to judge for ourselves and NOT for the others.

Just like Capital wrote:
If you weren't into someone for whatever reason, you simply did not have contact with them and that was it.

I am not into some dudes because I personally, do not find them attractive. And I am also into other dudes precisely because I very much personally, find them to be attractive. My body, my life and I am calling my shots.

All of the above is simply what the constitutional lawyers call 'the freedom of association' for the lack of better expression.

Shaming the others, and getting into their private business without being asked to do so is what is so totally wrong.

So, this other dude is supposedly cheating on his wife, his BF, etc.. Whereas I personally, find this neither good nor laudable, I will always stop passing any moral judgement here.

First off, I am not his/her or anyone's moral or otherwise guardian. They are grown ups, and should be able to handle their affairs on their own. Why would I wish to get involved into their affairs in any way to start with?

Second off, how much do I really know about these guys? What may appear to most of the uninformed folks out there as a blatant case of cheating may or may not be an open relationship? Who knows? And, frankly, why would we want to know? How is this any of my business?

Now, some of the shamers go around pointing out that shaming people is a powerful means of corrective behavior. So, you are shaming a fat/obese person, so he/she hits the gym, loses weight, improves his/her health, and generally becomes a very 'desirable' person.

No one can absolutely exclude this scenario. Yet, I very strongly doubt that there are many, many fat/obese dudes out there who do not know that they are NOT doing too well, need to lose weight, improve on their lifestyle, etc.. Telling them something that is pretty obvious AND pretty well-known to them is really NOT like you are breaking any major news to them. And before anyone goes there, they too, should remember that other people's lives are really NONE of their business to start with.

KD