I had an experience recently where I was talking with a guy at a local bar. He was handsome, intelligent and had a good sense of humor. The conversation was really great, but, I wasn's sure if I was into him for a fuck. After a while, I figured I wasn't all that into it and was trying to plan my exit which is usually, I'm going to have a smoke, since we can't smoke in bars here in Boston or I have to take a piss, nice talking with you. He beat me to it and said he had to take a piss and when he did this other guy came up to me and started hitting on me. The new guy, I was totally aroused by, not that he was better looking, it's all chemistry for me, and I wanted to leave with him and fuck him like crazy.

The other guy came back, surprisingly, I thought it was his escape, and was not too pleased with our new visitor.

Anyway, I ended up jumping a cab and went home alone. Yeah, I could have fucked the guy I was into, but I would have felt like a complete asshole if the other guy saw me leave with him.

I now regret it, as it's just a bar, no obligations and I could have handled it differently with hopefully no feelings hurt, but was curious as to how any other guys deals with this kind of situation.

Quote |

I do not do the usual exists. If I decide, I do not want to get going with the dude, I have been testing the grounds with, I simply and politely part, like in 'Man, nice talking with you, let me have a look around, and take care.' This would only work, if I never made any promises, I was going to take him home and shag him silly . If I did so, I feel compelled to say, 'Sorry, I do not think it would quite work out the way I thought it would... so, take care... whatever.

I believe that people should be treated honestly and though, I would never be rude or aggressive or anything, saying, 'sorry, I'd like to look around for a bit', sends a clear and loud message. Leaving a dude in the middle of the conversation, saying you got to go and take a piss and then, never showing up again, sounds a bit dishonest to me. (Pardon me for being this blunt!)

Most guys cruising for sex know the usual drill. 'It ain't over, till it's over!' You can politely exit at any time and so can he. No biggie there. Do not feel bad about that part. Do yourself a favor and consider adopting better and more genuine exist strategies.

Just my 2 cents...

KD

Quote |

Blunt is good KD ;-)

Actually, if you re-read, I did say I also add "nice talking with you" after I say I'm having a smoke or taking a piss, so I'm not dis-honest as you mention, that gives a loud and clear message, hopefully anyway.

The thing is here that this guy left first and when he came back, the other guy was there, so it was kind of awkward.

Quote |

Hell, next time invite 'em both home for a 3-way.

It sounds as if you let the first guy's problem become yours. He met you there at the bar. He left, not you. You didn't actively seek the second guy out. He sought you out. And unless the bar has "one convesation to a customer" limit, you were in no way out of bounds to be friendly to anyone who might want to talk to you.

Now, if the first guy came back and found the two of you lip-locked, or even half-naked and putting on a show, he would only have himself to blame for not having taken the initiative with you in the first place. Still his problem, not yours.

If anyone committed a blunder here, it was the first guy. He did not act well toward you upon finding you actively engaged in (gasp) talking to another patron of the establishment. He probably thought you had been a "sure thing" and then found he had been mistaken when he saw how you were interacting with the second guy. Then he compounded the issue by making you feel uncomfortable about it all.

Next time, just be your usual friendly self. If someone doesn't like it, too bad. You don't want to hook up with someone who would act like that anyway.

Quote |

Even though I haven't been in a gay bar in many years, I have never CRUISED a gay bar in my entire life. The first time I went into a bar was WITH my ex partner. ALL the rest of the times I went into a gay bar were ALSO with my ex. Also a few times with some friends in New England.

But I've certainly been down the same road. "Trading up" is a common occurrence in ALL cruising venues. Probably the biggest difference between gay bar cruising and other forms of cruising is that gay bars lend themselves to much more conversation. This can make things a bit more awkward -- we feel socially obligated to EXPLAIN our actions and choices to the guy we've been talking to for the last half hour.

To a degree, we ARE obligated by social standards to consider an "exit strategy" should we decide we need to implement one. But at the same time, we don't have to go to great lengths and contrive excuses, nor do we have to be too concerned with someone else's feelings.

It's nice to be nice, sure. But anyone who doesn't understand the scene or the situation and who takes personal offense to another man's sexual choice has a lot of learning to do.

As a general rule... if YOU approach someone FIRST, you should have ready a plausible and polite excuse to disengage yourself from further discussion or implied sexual activity BEFORE you start a conversation and build up the hopes of the guy you are cruising. You should also try NOT to let the scene go too far before you've made up your own mind.

If someone ELSE approaches YOU first, you are under no obligation to return any sexual interest if none exists.

In situations where SOME interest exists, it is OK to chat for a bit and see if you are both sexually compatible. Have your exit strategy ready to go if you realize this is not the case!

Miss Manners would almost certainly tell us that in a social situation, such as a group party, if you are engaged in conversation with someone and another person wishes your attention, you should politely excuse yourself when the proper opportunity arises. There is SOME SMALL degree of social debt owed to someone you don't truly know very well but have been conversing with for a period of time. This debt is easily excused with little more than a polite "goodbye for now."

As long as you do at least THAT -- I see no real issues here.

In bookstores this happens all the time, albeit without a lot of conversation.

When I walk into a bookstore, I naturally make note of the guys I like MOST. If there are, say, four of these guys wandering around, I cannot help but seek out the one I like MOST. If this guy is into me as well... all the rest of them are out of luck. If he is NOT into me... I hope for Mr. Number Two. And so on down the line.

If Mr. Number Two cruises me BEFORE Mr. Number One, I will make sure he knows I am interested but that I am not yet ready to make a decision.

This can backfire. Sometimes Mr. Number Two wants it RIGHT NOW and isn't about to hang around waiting for me to make up my fucking mind. I don't blame him at all. If he wants to hook up with someone else instead, he has every right to do that.

I think it is actually EASIER to communicate sexual intentions in a bookstore-type scene than it is in a gay bar. As I noted, in a gay bar you have to SAY IT ALOUD. In a bookstore, you can do it with a look or with body language.

I recently met a dude who I THOUGHT was an eager and willing cocksucker. He was an OK-looking dude. Half bearish, half cubbish, half nerdy, half shy. He made SURE I knew he wanted me. He appeared on the other side of a Buddy Window and we were both stroking very hard and impressive erections. I liked his dick. He seemed to like mine. Without any indication from me, he came over to my side of the booth immediately.

So I'm thinking I'm going to get a great blowjob out of it. I didn't. We both played with each other's dicks for a while, and that was fine, but it's not enough for me. I decided to suck him off for a few minutes first, then it was my plan to stand up and let him go down on me. I did this, but he kept saying stuff to me that I wasn't into. He kept pushing his own dominance and making me feel as if I should be playing the role of a submissive bottom or a submissive cocksucker. This is not who I am. I enjoy sucking dick if I'm into the guy, but I ALWAYS get sucked FAR more than I suck myself.

Anyway, I stand up and he does NOTHING. Won't even jerk me off again. He asks if I want to get fucked. Uh... no, I don't. Thanks anyway. He orders me to get back down and suck him some more. I flat-out refused, simply saying "NO." Then he starts begging. Then he starts saying how much he knows I love his dick and how good it feels in my mouth. Fact of the matter was... it was OK, but no big fucking deal. Sucking cock isn't my thing, really. And I HATE it when I'm supposed to play a role for a guy that is not who I am.

I ultimately had to push him away. He wouldn't pull up his pants and leave, though. I finally told him: "Dude, there's been a mistake here. I'm not the type of guy you are looking for."

Finally he opened the door and I thought he was going to step out. Instead, he waved his hand at the door to MY booth and indicated I was to leave. I refused THAT, too. I said: "No, I'M staying here, thanks."

He left, pouting. It was a huge turn off -- all of it.

But fuck it -- I had NO obligation to be with him and NO obligation to be something I am sexually NOT.

Last night I run into a GORGEOUS dude who is practically drooling over my dick through the Buddy Window. He makes a "blowjob" gesture with his hand at his mouth and waves me over to his side. I was excited. He was hot and he wanted to suck me off. NICE!

I get in there and he puts his mouth on my half-hard dick and... does NOTHING. As I've said before, I don't get off or get harder if a guy doesn't at least MOVE his head. Bummer. The guy was a closet-case type, it was easy to tell. But I've met some closeted dudes who lose ALL inhibitions behind the closed door of a video booth. Not so with this guy, though.

He asks me if I want to suck his dick. I agreed; he was a nice-looking dude. I figured maybe a few minutes of working his cock would get him encouraged to suck me better. It didn't. He just kept doing very similar stuff to what the previous guy did: all this talk about me being a great cocksucker. Blah, blah, blah. I was turned on by his dick and my own dick was hard as hell at this point, but I am JUST not into sucking without reciprocation (much as I love OTHER men who ARE into that).

Then, out of the blue he says to me that we should take a break. I took this as my cue to get the hell out of there. I was relieved and not into blowing him anymore. He said he wanted to go "get a pop from the machine," and "drink something other than Jack Daniel's." The he suggests that he'll catch up with me later.

Usually this is just a bullshit excuse -- and I was cool with that.

I stood up and he grabs my hard dick and takes it in his hand, admiring it for a few minutes. Yeah, OK... nice, but... I need more, dude.

But getting himself a soda wasn't an excuse. He DID want to get back together with me, much like the guy who went to the bathroom in the bar wanted to get back together with MGB.

I went into a private booth and had a smoke, not wanting to be bothered with anyone at the moment. The guy must have seen me go inside or just figured out where I was because he came back and tapped on the door repeatedly. He did this six times, I counted.

I was considering letting him in just so I could maybe make him cum and then he'd leave. But I decided not to do that. I also considered that maybe he got the hint that I wanted MORE than just to suck HIM off. After all, HE offered ME a blowjob FIRST. But he was half-drunk and I doubted that he had the skills necessary to get me off anyway. So I ignored him. Eventually, I made a break and just left the bookstore.

Probably this was MY mistake. I COULD have just TOLD him what I wanted. I could TELL this guy DID want to suck dick -- but he was nervous. I'm sure I could have easily taken "control" of the dude and got what I wanted. Plus, I would have enjoyed sucking him a bit more -- just NOT exclusively with nothing in return.

But I owed him NOTHING. And frankly, he owed ME nothing, either.

USUALLY I always know what a guy is into before we hook up. It's generally evident if he's a cocksucker or whatever. But sometimes... mistakes happen, as in these two cases.

In one case, I ignored the dude and hid out until he left me alone. In the other, I spoke my mind and said the truth.

It is BETTER and more polite to speak the truth. But there's no requirement to do anything or explain your actions in a cruising situation.

It is advantageous to let it be known what you want, however. If I ever run into the dude who I TOLD I was not the guy he was looking for, he'll KNOW this for sure and leave me alone from now on. If I run into the second dude, he may try to get together again, being uncertain as to why I never opened the door when he knocked.

So mostly I think your obligation is to YOURSELF. But there's nothing wrong with being polite. If someone who is out cruising can't handle polite rejection... too bad for him.

Quote |

Hey BMG,

Sorry, I missed your clause.

I made it a practice to be as unambigous as possible. I tend to use a sufficient number of words. I would even shake hands, or give a little hug and/or do everything to make sure the guy understands that I have other plans for now. Nope, I do not think most people are weak-minded and need this much redundancy. But cruising is one of those situations where most people hear only what they want to hear. Many only see what they want to see. So, I would err on the side of being too articulate.

I went cruising last night here in SF, and hooked up with a very hot dude. A most beautiful Asian-Caucasian mix. The guy was good. He knew his stuff well. I wanted to hit a private booth with him and said so. The little guy grabbed my hand and virtually started running with me trailing behind him... This was funny alright. Once we got inside, he turned into one of those 'Top Ten' suckers I have ever met. Awesome:-).

He re-started slow and easy, just the way I like it and kept on gradually increasing his speed and suction. This lasted for a while. Then he stood up and asked if I wanted to face fuck him. I said 'sure' and gave him a good workout. That put a big smile on his face.

Yup, I was just lucky. But we would have not gotten there, if it were not for a clear verbal invitation. So, I see some little virtue in being articulate, when needed.

KD

Quote |

Sometimes the best approach is the direct approach. While in college, I would occasionally go to a popular gay bar which usually had a good mix of people. On one such occasion, I met an older guy while sitting at the end of the bar. I saw him enter the bar, pause briefly to survey the crowd, and then made eye contact with me as I sat at the end of the bar. There was an empty bar stool next to mine, so he walked up next to me and asked if anyone had already taken the vacant seat next to me. I told him it was not reserved for anyone. In the space of approximately 1 minute, this guy had entered the bar, surveyed the occupants in the bar, made eye contact with me, and was seated next to me at the end of the bar. Over the next half hour, this older guy and I had a very good friendly conversation. I needed to relieve myself in the mensroom, so I excused myself and told the guy I would be right back.

Upon my return from the mensroom, I discovered this guy had ordered me another drink, something he didn't have to do. But, I thanked him just the same. It wasn't long before he had to excuse himself and use the mensroom. He told me he would be right back. Upon his return, he sat down and faced towards me again. This time, he looks me straight in the eyes and directly asks me ... "What's it going to take to get you in my bed?"

My response to his bold question was ... "Clean sheets usually does it for me." Sometimes the best approach is the direct approach. If I had not been interested in this older guy, I could have told him I was going to use the mensroom as I was leaving the bar. I would have thanked him for the good conversation and left it at that. He could have done that too. As it turned out, we both had mutual interests and sex was certainly high on our list. The guy was twice my age, but it was his confidence and boldness that clicked with me. In my mental rolodex, I gave this guy very high marks. After spending the night with him in his motel room, I updated my mental rolodex and gave him a five star rating and my telephone number if he was ever again in town on business. We met again on two other occasions.

__________________
Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves. And, under a just God, cannot long retain it.

-- Abraham Lincoln

Quote |

I'm just curious scruffy, if you're deaf? I ask because I've been looking around at all the advice and questions posted here, and your answers are VERY long. They tend to really go in depth into things, and quite often they don't always address the issue especially directly.... they'll more go off on tangants and such. This is a VERY deaf culture trait. I know alot of deaf people, and one in particular I know, if you ask him a question his answers are generally much like yours.

I'm not trying to be rude or insulting, it just seems that you have a trait that is a big deaf trait, so I was curious...

Either way, I definitely enjoy your posts, and think that you have many more intelligent things to say on here than quite a lot of the people haha...

Quote |

No, I'm not deaf.

In fact, I made a fool out of myself for once berating a poster who wrote a bunch of stuff that was nearly incomprehensible. I wanted to help the guy out but couldn't figure out what the hell he was saying. Someone ELSE here noted that certain patterns in the guy's writing indicated he was probably deaf. That turned out to be the case. I felt bad and offered an apology.

I just like to write. I also have no problem with tangential issues as they quite often are necessary to discuss if we are to see various aspects of any given situation.

And sometimes discussions simply wander into new territory. Many guys here will take a conversation and spin it into something new. I find that refreshing, personally.

I DO sometimes have difficulty hearing conversations if they are in a crowded place where there is lots of ambient noise. This is pretty normal, but I think for me it's maybe a bit more pronounced than for most other folks. I don't like distractions. It bugs me when my mind isn't focused. I hate to carry on a discussion if TVs are blaring or music is playing, etc.

Now, why would you want to take this discussion we were having and go off on a tangent about something not related?



Just kidding. Got you, though!

As for the "long post" stuff... eh. We've been down this road a thousand times. No offense meant, but my response is always the same: if long posts are bothersome, folks would be well advised to skip anything I write. Skimming is another good suggestion -- not every topic is of interest to everyone here. Generally I read MOST of whatever it is the other guys write, but I am "guilty" of skimming from time to time, too.

Probably positive reinforcement as a young man is the main reason why I write at length. In school, I would be asked to write a three-page essay and I'd turn in ten pages instead. I never had a teacher complain. In fact, they would often force me to read my shit to the whole class, which I hated. But the "A" grade seemed to say that whatever I was doing was working, so...

I also type very fast. I cannot write in cursive script. My handwriting is awful. I've been typing since I was about ten years old.

I write for other web sites as well, though I am currently on a break and able to focus more of my attention here at the moment.

I also like to be as CLEAR as possible, even when going off on a tangent. Message boards tend to be misinterpreted quite often and people's feelings get hurt if you don't take pains to be explicit.

I sometimes write shorter posts -- but not often.

And finally... I'm up in New York visiting my family and dealing with some other bullshit. It's freezing cold. There's a foot or more of snow on the ground. There's not much to do here -- the bookstores don't get busy until later at night!

Glad you enjoy some of what I write, at any rate. And no, I'm not offended. I hear this ALL the time and am quite used to it.

Quote |