How much does it cost for a local boy to live normal apartment outside the center. Food and averaqge life style.

At the risk of sounding flippant, Jess, finding a boy is easy. Keeping him can be a challenge. The cost of staying alive isn't all that high-- the equivalent of a few hundred dollars or pounds each month goes pretty far, but the obligations rarely end there. In a land without social security, the family unit remains the major support structure, and if you take on support of a boy, the cliche that you take on his family has a fair amount of truth. I don't claim expertise, and welcome correction, but most of the young men I've met in bars or massage parlors in Bangkok have come there because it's where the money or education is, and would be more than happy to move on back to a city nearer the village as soon as an education is finished and a good job or enough money is sent home to make a nest egg and a small house on the family spread. I do happen to think that's a worthy investment in another life if, like myself, you have no family to support and money's not too tight, but given how very easy it is to lose one's hard in this country it's helpful to remember than an investment isn't the same as a purchase.

Conversely, if you link up with a young entrepreneur who has really sorted out the scene with older farang, he's much more likely to have his eye on a Swiss chalet and a new CRV as he is that modest spot in the suburbs, bragging rights being important, and you could find yourself one of a number of investors, each neatly blocked to avoid the other. Youth and beauty are commodities in Thailand as much as anywhere else, and it makes small sense not to cash in on it.

Interesting Freudian slip. It's easy to lose one's "heart". The "hard" is ever with us, but one can check the Viagra string for that part...

Jaidee,Wow Pow,Thai Guy and Cupidman,

Interesting enough, I spend a lot of my time on this message board, not our of bordom I am busy enough. I look carefully at what you guys say. It has been and remains my thought if you don't know the answer not to look in a book, look to the ones who do it every day, they are the experts. often that means lstening to those you may condider less or greater than your self. But they are the experts. So I have built a life of listening. Guys like you who for the most part have made critial descsions about your own lives right or wrong are the only true source I have to make a choice.

I am not what you would consider a wealthy man unless you count a happy heart. So yes this is a critical choice for me. Broke I am not but I have the potential to do this and be comfortable if I am careful. I have a home in America I don't want and 3 here. All I would trade for the right place somewhere else.

I say that to say this, you guys that take your valuable time to write in this section to me are not waisting your time. I am looking carefully at this and as many threads as I can find. I have made a lot of mistakes in my life hopefully this won't be another one of them. So I look and listen and thank every one that cares enough to put in there two Bhat worth of time into my future.

regards,

Jesse

Now,

Assuming I have found an average villiage guy(Which so far seems to be the case) that so far has spent every thing he has gotten from me on his family in the forest. What is the likelyhood he would stay with me. He seems genuine enough but rarely asked for money wants to start a business but lacks the know how of city life. Hates being a Go Go boy but like many of them had no real choice. Dosen't seem to be lazy especially in bed. Oops persoanl.

So what is the likely hood if I do love him that and we love each other (Almost God Forbid that should really happen)That he being young would forgo the best years of his life to spend with an old dude like me. Will I end up living in the villiage too. Not That I would mind that either as long as I can bring in a good bed. Hehehe

I have talked to Oat who is as street wise as they come. Don't get me wrong he is honest but he is all business. He has not given me any real warnings. It would certainly be to his advantage to since I use him for almost every thing I do there.

what is the chance I have run into a bad one or what is the chance a good one but smart.

While I am there, it would be nice if one of you guys would consider a free dinner of your choice with us, (Under 100 USD please)And meet the guy talk to him tell me what you think.

jess

Jess, go with your heart. When we try and analyze things too much and justify them and do the "right thing" (or "expected to do" thing) we end up not being so happy. I gave up lot of so-called security back in the USA when I moved to Thailand 6 years ago. And I don't regret the move at all. Hey, I've gotten burned and I've done dumb things and have been taken advantage of. So what. You live, you learn and life goes on. As far as "keeping" a boy, keep in mind that some don't want to be kept. At least not under lock and key or under your watchful eye all the time. I'm not saying you would be such a protective and possessive "Keeper" like that, but with the age difference in so many Thai-farang relationships, we tend to forgot about the recreational and social needs of the Thai youngsters. So many of them love to "party" and "bpai tee-o" all the time. You need lots of patience and cultural understanding to make things work. But...as to your question of "how much", well it depends. Like Jaidee said, there are different types of boys with different needs. Apartments are pretty cheap and most Thais can eat on a modest budget, too. I'll leave the financial details for the CFS Accounting Department. Maybe Enron can hire them!

Jess, after reading so many of your posts about moving to Thailand, I have to add my two cents worth. I have communicated with you in the past and you have been quite helpful in what you said. My big concern is that you are contemplating moving to Thailand, mainly to find a boy to be with, not for all of the other wonderful things Thailand has to offer. I have known too many guys in the states who had the need to have a younger lover. In most cases, the results have been disasterous.
I feel that you will bankrupt yourself in Thailand, either on the boy you find, or going out looking for boys. Sometime ago you mentioned how much you could retire on. That does not seem enough to me for a decent retirement, let alone supporting a boy and perhaps his extended family.
Thailand is a wonderful country. I will be visiting it again in March for my fourth time. I do go to some of the bars and the Prince Theater, but sex is not my main reason for going to Thailand.
If it's sex you seek, there is plenty here in the United States, free of charge. I will have to say I get more free sex,almost whenever I want, it here in Key West and I don't have to worry about keeping a boy. I am also 60 years old, but that doesn't interfere with my sex.
Please consider your move and your intentions for it. Sex and boys is not what life is all about. Your future and your level of economic enjoyment is important.
I too considered retire

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Mark

I don't understand why you only seem to consider meeting some kind of commercial money boy from the provinces. I though they were the sum of the scene when I first came 20 years ago and now i am working here. My partner of 5 years is an educated business man. I live in his house and drive his car. When I met hime he was generous to the extreme. He has been going through some hardships during the last year due to the economic downturns in the US economy (his business is based on US orders) and now I am helping him out. He resents the fact that he is not paying his way at the moment and he is working hard and imaginatively to remedy the situation. Please do not think that Thailand is just a land of go go boys (not that they deserve any less repect for that).

I posted two replies electric out then battery on the old lap top. I think I will just listen.

Greggy, Jess,

With respect, there are also a lot of other foreigners living here, long term, who have long term relationships with young Thai guys who have never been go-go boys, and are not business men with substantial resources.

The young man I share a home with was working in a small nondescript restaurant in an outer suburb of Bangkok. I went to that area because of a client project and just stumbled across the restaurant. One chance in millions. He couldn't speak one word of English, fortunately I speak quite a lot of Thai.

The same project continued for several months and I went to the restaurant every day for lunch and often an early dinner, quite often the only customer. I established that he had finished primary school in the temple where he had lived for several years because his parents couldn't afford to feed all the children. He had never been to high school, and was desperate to learn anything. One day he showed me the ancient and tattered Thai textbooks he had read over and over. All had blocks of pages torn out. He had one pair of jeans, three T shirts, and a worn out pair of cheap sports shoes, basically his entire belongings.

I discretely made an arrangement to meet him outside of work, and eventually he came to live with me and stopped work (at my suggestion, so that he could concentrate on school). He's now almost completed adult high school, and tops his class for every examination, and he's just lodged his application to a good Thai university.

I consider myself very lucky to have met him. He appreciates every thing I have helped him with, and he makes sure he shows his appreciation.

I will also freely admit that keeping him is not cheap, but I am most certainly not complaining. I rent a larger condo so that he can have his own room, which he has turned into a well organized study room. His high school fees are tiny, however the school continuously asks for hefty contributions to sports days, equipment of all sorts, trips, contributions to temples, etc etc. He's the captain of the school football team, just recently all students were asked to pay 3,000 Baht, so that the school football team could play one football match at the Chula Uni stadium. He was quite concerned that I would think he was telling me a lie, so he had a mutual friend (an older Thai business man)translate the notice from the school, and call the school to verify the amount. There are also continuous requests for funds to repair buildings, put up new school signs, etc. I pay for an annual membership of BUPA medical insurance, about 4,000 Baht a year.

Like all Thais he must contribute financially to his parents living costs. He's the only son which increases the pressure, and he must also provide funds for his two younger sisters to go to school. Recently his mother has been quite ill (verified) and he politely asked for extra funds to move her to a larger, better hospital in Khon Kaen, where she stayed for nearly two months. She has to take medication, probably for the rest of her life, which is quite expensive, and is not covered by the Tokin 30 Baht medical scheme. He jogs at least 10 kilometres every day, he eats like a horse - it all costs money. The list goes on

He initially had quite a problem with an older sister when she discovered that he had contact with a farang. For at least a year or more there were continuous requests for motor cycles, pick up trucks, you name it. He bravely pushed them aside, but the sister involved gave him quite a hard time.

The cost of living has gone up substantially in Bangkok over the last few years, rent, food, clothing etc, and there is absolutely enormous peer pressure on young Thais to have a mobile phone, fashion clothes etc. If friends discover that a young man has a sponsor, there is a good chance he'll be expected to always pick up the bill for meals etc. And there is a good chance he'll not want his friends to know that his sponsor is a male farang.

The young man who lives with me is very masculine, but like most Thais very gentle, quietly spoken and polite. His friends at high school don't know he lives with a farang and me makes sure they don't find out. Why, because he knows that he'll get nasty comments about money boys and about gays. In our condo building he regularly gets snide comments from the other Thai owners & tenants, and the maids who clean the corridors etc. He grits his teeth and ignores it. But I know that it hurts him.

Jess, it's not easy, it's not cheap, but the rewards are worth it.

Please also note one of the post about entrepreneurs. There are plenty of them and they can be quite clever, and very charming. I've seen several friends totally drained.

Regards

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xfuntimes

Just a couple more bahts' worth. The only thing that actually worries me, Jess, is the "I'm going to retire to Thailand and maybe start a business, part." The Thai government is delighted to consider having you retire here providing you can show a steady source of income. Starting a business is quite another matter, and reasonably so. There are very clear laws about what you can and cannot do, and how much cash you have to display in order to do it.

Making Thailand a major part of your life agenda is achievable, even on a relatively modest budget. You certainly could end up in the best relationship in your life, though it's certainly not going to be like any you've enjoyed in the west.

Think of the whole adventure as a trip to a casino, although it'll be a lot more fun. Know how much you can afford to lose, enjoy yourself if that's the way the cards go, and consider in advance how you'll know when it's time to call it quits. If you hit it big, great! If not, hey, it was fun, wasn't it?

And just a bit more.

Please be very careful about 'setting up a business' here in Thailand. I have no idea whether you have prior experience at starting or operating a business, and it's clearly not my business.

I am a management consultant. I've seen many farang, at retirement, try to start businesses here. 99% fail for a whole range of reasons, some being:

- No understanding of even the most basic business principles, not even a very basic business plan, no understanding whatever of financing - even for small business, no real understanding of managing staff, etc

- Farang who start up a travel agency(as an example), no experience whatever in this industry, and the business started in a place where there is already lots of strong well organized professional competition

- Farang who start a business and employ a gaggle of cute boys, all allowed to party 24 hours a day, all given a mobile phone, all given a free apartment, when the profits (if business is good) can't possibly support these expenditures

- No understand of the very different business climate in Thailand, the external economic climate, methods of networking, marketing & selling processes, customr satifaction factors, etc, etc

- The fact that most businesses take years to develop before any real profits arrive

- Continuous misunderstanding with staff because of language, and never understood very different expectations of work place behaviours and interactions

- Using the 19 years old Thai lover as a translater and business partner, and he's never been to school (no disrespect intended), and has no understanding or experience whatever of business, doesn't being to understand the government documents & permits etc etc

- Tea money

- Pressure on the lover, or the Thai staff, to insist that jobs are provided for close and not so close relatives etc

- The farang eventually squeezed out

DO YOU REALLY NEED THIS, AT RETIREMENT??

Good luck

Regards

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xfuntimes

Reading CFS over two years,and visiting Thailand frequently for five, my conclusion is that every trip after the first "starry eyed encounter",Thailand reveals iself to be very complex and a trap for unwary players.Enjoyable intrigue for sure but look before you leap.Or another cliche "fools rush in"

ps:there is a hetero weekly news letter by stickman which Icon sometimes gives the link for.Stickman seems to be an ex-GI who has a lot of experience and advice for straight guys that can be transferred to gays.Seems he is very disillusioned with current whoring attitudes and some of the incidents have a familiar ring.His interest in all things Thai runs deeper than cruising so it is a recommended read.

[ February 20, 2002: Message edited by: brief encounter ]

I'd like to re-inforce Brief Encounter's view.I've been coming to Thailand for over 30 years and for the last 20 years visiting on a monthly basis.Thailand is a great place and the human qualities of the people very high.However Thais are human and suffer the same faults of humans everywhere.So one must be very prudent especially in matters concerning money.Starting a business in Thailand is very risky-risky if you don't succeed and risky if you do.Success often incites envy and it is always best to keep a very low profile.I would recommend to anyone considering retiring to Thailand that he have enough income from OFFSHORE investments(interest income,social security,etc.) to lead the kind of live style he wants.What constitutes an adequate income level is very subjective but I think a monthly income of B100,000. should be adequate.I think a very dangerous move is to come to Thailand and count on surviving by starting a business-there are many many more failures than successes-even if you know the business.

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George

I have read Stickmans, Very long reading and moods often fluctuate with the day he is writing. He makes a lot of sense however.
I think we can safely and assume that I may take the option of a part timer here. Me and My business partener agree that I remain with the company till I die and keep a place here for the times I need to get away.He is a chinese Elder and wise beyond his 80 years. He see,s my love for the childen will never die. To remain involved until I die will be my life. So property I will look for or a serviced apartment. But a full time permanet residence here is not what I want. All of you have been full of the right and often not what I wanted to hear advise. I listened and I agree. This will be a month out of this year I have spent here. It will be a long time before I come back. I will be in America for 3 months starting the 17th of May and will not be back for some time. It will give me time to want to come back. They say time heals all things. It will this too. I am in no hurry. Over a period of several years I will gradually make up my mind. I was for me good have my heart opened again. But after 10 years of bitterness at the loss of so much I have finaly awakend to a new awarness of what I want for me. Love is good but it remains bitter sweet at it best. I take it as it comes.

Thanks guys, I am sure in my life I have never seen Gay people this open to advise of a non sarcastic nature. It ahs been good to make friends at CFS. People recognize me when I go down to the Balcony To eat. Guess there is only one Gay American workign in Kyrgyzstan. Many read but not so many write.

Please continue to write.

Many thanks!!

jess