I was arrested for loitering in a public restroom for the intend of committing a lewd act. The officer was standing at the urinal with his hand in his sweat pants motioning as though he was masterbating. I tried to look and made the statement for him to go ahead and cum. Big mistake...The cops were doing a sting at the Robinson's May in the Crenshaw Balwin Hills mall. I was taken down to the South West LAPD station. They finger printed and photograghed me. I was then released with a citation with promise to appear in court. I was never read any rights. I guess my question is, Was I really arrested? Should I deny or try to fight this in court? Will this be on my record as a sex offender forever? By the way, I never admitted to anything and kept silent. Your responses will be gladly appreciated.

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Get a lawyer, and if your miranda rights were not read, that should give you some leverage.

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Hey Buddy -

I've been there too. Seriously. First: take a deep breath and relax. I promise you this is not the end of the world.

I was arrested for doing NOTHING... granted.. if I had had the chance I might have gone down on the cop.. but only if you are gay do you get arrested for doing nothing. Anyway...

Forget the Miranda rights things.. the cops and courts don't care.
You can fight it. I wouldn't depend on the the court appointed attorney. If you are broke.. go to the Gay and Lesbian Center.. they have free legal advice ... and frankly if you are young and cute you can probably get someone to represent you..or at least refer you to an attorney who will do it pro bono.

If you choose not to fight it. (As I did). You can have your record eventully exspunged (as I did). This won't help if you are planning to be a school teacher or somehting that requires clearance, but I won't prevent you from moving on with other career options.

Finally.. stop cruising bathrooms... go to a 12 step sex addiction group.. go only to single restrooms.. pee in your pants.. but don't do the bathroom thing. This is not a moral judgement. I loved the excitement of restroom sex.. but the LAPD is focused on stopping gay men from meeting in restrooms and they will take the innocent down with the guilty. The is the world we live in.

Good luck my friend...

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Just know that the vice cops WILL LIE about the reading of your rights.

Is it entrapment...sure! Proving it is another thing.

The old saying goes...when your out looking for trouble...you can always find it, which in this case they knew what was going on there, and knew by playing with themselves through their pants they could snag someone.

Isn't it interesting how intuitive these bastards are? You were arrested for the "intent" on a lewd act. How I'd like to know, do they know what people "Intend" to do?

Maybe they should drop their LAPD jobs and play the Lottery more often with such intuition!

Their position is they did read you your rights, unless you had a video camera to prove otherwise.

I know it's screwed up...but my advice is find a lawyer through the Gay and Lesbian Service Center and ask some questions before you go and spend alot of your hard earned money!

They've heard every scenario in the books I'm sure!

Hope this helps!

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Does anyone know a good resource on the web with information about lewd conduct, how to and whether to fight it, etc.? I have seen good threads on this board in the past, but of course can't find them now that I need them. Anyone know of a good site to check?

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It never ceases to amaze me the number of "legal scholars" on this board who don't know what the hell they are talking about.

Miranda=only required if they question you about the crime. NOT REQUIRED to ask you your name, address, next of kin, finger print you, arrest you, ect. It's not that the courts don't care about Miranda, it's that it is often irrelivant. Hell, if you start making statements without them asking, it's tough shit.

Entrapment=classic definition is to "plant the seed of a crime in an innocent mind". Now that has been extrapolated over the years by courts in every state, so it does vary from state to state and I don't know what it is in California. But at least I admit that I don't really know California law. Now, if you were of an "innocent mind" instead trying to look and saying go ahead and cum, you'd have been disgusted and called the cops or the store manager on the guy. At the least, shot him a nasty look and moved on. Am I right? That would have given you a defense to work with.

Get a lawyer and hope for the best.

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Re: Entrapment. Well-put, Sam.

Although I am very sympathetic to anyone that is arrested for what appeared to be a private act between two individuals ... it kills me how many guys go out looking for sex in a public place (illegal) and when they get busted they scream "Entrapment"!!!

They weren't trapped, they were caught!

Again, I am sympathetic, because I have been similarly "entrapped" in a sting operation ... but if I wasn't looking for trouble I wouldn't have been arrested.

Please, no hate mail ... the situation DOES suck, and you have my sympathy. Been there, done that. Hated it. But it WAS my fault.

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The advice to "get a lawyer" has come up several times here because it is the single most important thing you have to do right now.

DO NOT attempt to handle this on your own. DO NOT accept a court-appointed attorney.

Seriously, dude... sell your fucking furniture if you have to. You need a good lawyer who has handled these types of cases before -- and rest assured, there are LOTS of them out there. They even advertise "lewd conduct" in the phone book.

Odds are good this will be a really miserable time for you until the final resolution, but with a good attorney you will probably end up being humiliated in open court, given a slap on the wrist, maybe made to pay a fine. With any luck you'll get the charges dropped or reduced to something non-sexual in nature.

Just get that attorney. Tell him the truth about what happened. If you feel the attorney doesn't much care about your case, find a new one ASAP.

And the guys are correct: not being mirandized means nothing -- forget that. Let your lawyer try to barter with the DA BEFORE you stand in front of the judge. If the judge has a very large docket in front of him, he may want to get your case over and done with as soon as possible.

Good luck.

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Well, I WASN'T CAUGHT DOING A LEWD ACT(I DIDN'T DO A LEWD ACT). I WAS BUSTED FOR LOITERING. I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO PRIOR RECORD. I'M CLEAN AS A WISTLE. I JUST WONDER IF I WILL BE QUALIFY FOR SOME KIND OF ALTERNATE PROGRAM WITH OUT HAVING TO GO TO TRAIL ON THIS. DON'T THE COURTS AND POLICE HAVE MORE IMPORTANT THINGS TO SPEND TAX PAYERS MONEY ON? DAYUM, GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!!

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I know I said I was going back to lurk mode, but I just can't help myself (sort of like dcfan).

Yes, the cops and courts do have better things to do. Most of them could give a shit what you do in private. These crackdowns are usually the result of the "taxpayers" getting tired of seeing their parks and streets turned into public sex venues. Sure, you get an occasional prosecutor or police chief who gets a hair up his ass and proclaims a crackdown. But the majority are the result of neighbors and "taxpayers" calling, writing, and showing up at public meetings demanding something be done by their elected officals, who then tell the police to clean it up. When a local park showed up on the places list here, the cops cracked down. I remember one case in particular where they not only arrested the two guys doing it, but a third guy who was just watching (vouyerism), with all names published in the paper.

I love sucking and fucking as much as the rest of you. But the last thing I wanted was to be walking with my kids through a park or into a restroom to find a guy swinging on another guys cock. Try to explain that to a 4 year old

Come on guys. We cause most of our own problems by irresponsible behaviour. Let's clean up our own act, then the cops won't have to.

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I call this a very useful debate.

I am certainly no angel and have done more than my fair share of cruising in public places. I got caught only once, many years ago and nothing really happened. No arrest, no charges, nada. Call it a good luck.

Most European countries are rather liberal when it comes to having sex in public. Sure, just like everywhere else, it is forbidden but in most EU countries nothing really happens, unless you choose to have a hardcore sex act at the main square round lunchtime. For as long as you confine your activities to parks and bushes, tearooms and nude beaches, no one bothers. I am free to guess that very few taxpayers, citizens, etc. really complain to their elected officials about the fact that certain activities take place regularly during the night hours in certain city parks. If it bothers you, do not go there in the middle of the nite --- that would be the attitude here.

I agree with SA that it is not easy to explain all the doings in a men's tearoom to a 4 year old. In reality, there are loads of stuff on TV and all over the place that are difficult to explain to a 4 year old. So, people apply all kinds of evasive strategies. No one ever said any place was perfect, unless you choose to live in your very own gated community.

Being this much on the go, I have grown accustomed to a certain pattern of cruising. This works for me:

1) Absolutely no cruising in Saudi Arabia and similar. Sorry, guys, it just ain't worth it.
2) Limited cruising at places where laws are ocassionally enforced. Clubs, bars, ABS rather than public places. I want neither trouble nor expense.
3) Cruise as you will, at places where they do not enforce the laws and where it really does not cause a problem of any magnitude.
4) Cruising is just another aspect of daily life. So, use your common sense, take calculated risks and leave at the faintest sign of possible trouble. You don't want any explaining to do, do you?

KD

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Just an aside in support of Sam's post regarding the public being the ones that generally push the cops into crackdowns ... in my case the arresting officers semi-apologized at the time of the arrest, saying that there had been several complaints from families that had taken their kids to the beach and walked up on guys having sex. I think his comment was "why can't you keep it in the bedroom, buddy?" (or something like that). He also advised that I tell my wife that I was taking a leak in the woods and got busted. Not a bad cop, all-in-all, but his partner was an asshole.

The lady in booking (a tough black cop) actually shouted at the arresting officers, saying "why can't you leave these guys alone and lean on the drugs dealers?" Not that it helped me any, but at least I felt a LITTLE less humiliated.

When my wife brought bail, the clerk suggested that she let me rot in there. Very nice touch.

It actually gets worse ... C.O.P.S was filming that day, and I made the footage, but it's on some editing floor somewhere, they found a sadder case to show on the final cut, I guess. But you can imagine how I felt every Thursday night when C.O.P.S came on. I kept waiting for my face.

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Dude, your first post said you were busted for loitering WITH the INTENT of committing a LEWD ACT.

That's a different charge from what you said in your second post, that you were busted ONLY for loitering.

You certainly have a copy of the paperwork -- what does it say?

If it is loitering only -- relax. This is a bullshit charge that will probably get dropped IF you have a good attorney.

If it is loitering with the intent to commit a lewd act -- the DA may want to see it through. I am sure this is also a misdemeanor charge that will be bargained down before it is all said and done.

This is almost certainly NOT going to go to trial -- at least not if you have a GOOD attorney (there's that advice again). No judge wants to waste time and money on an actual trial for a loitering charge, even a loitering charge with intent for lewd conduct.

GENERALLY speaking, the process is:

Your attorney talks with you, then he talks with the DA. The DA acts like an asshole and tries to pressure your attorney to make you plead guilty. Your attorney refuses. This leaves the DA with the option of going to trial. He won't want to do that in most cases. Eventually he'll strike a bargain with YOUR attorney. The two of them will talk to the judge and arrange a deal of some sort before you have to appear the final time.

The deal usually works along these lines: the judge doesn't want to waste time and fill up his docket. He'll determine what he thinks is fair for you. A fine, community service, maybe nothing at all but a verbal lashing in open court to embarrass you. You may be asked to plead guilty to a lesser charge. You may not be asked to plead guilty -- you may simply have a closed record and walk out of there with a warning. Possibly the "intent for lewd conduct" part will be dropped but the loitering charge will stick. Jail time for loitering or even loitering with the intent for lewd conduct is almost unheard of, especially with a first offense. If anything, most likely you are looking at a fine here. If your lawyer is very good, he may get the whole thing dismissed entirely -- but you can't count on that.

With a clean record, your attorney can argue that you are an upstanding citizen who made a mistake. The judge will probably make you TELL HIM in open court that you won't do it again. The judge may decide to NOT give you a record of conviction. In the future, should you apply for jobs, you will not have to list this offense on your application if you have no record.

GET THAT ATTORNEY and ask him ALL the questions you desire. That's what you are paying him for.

Odds are in your favor that you'll get through this OK. I know it is hard not to worry and feel anxious and miserable. Just give it time and see what your attorney says. He should be telling you what the DA has said in response to his suggestions and requests.

I can't think of an "alternate" program that any state provides for loitering offenses! Even with the "lewd conduct" bit, it's likely they wouldn't send you to a sex offender program (though some states are getting ridiculous, so... you never know).

Your ATTORNEY (gosh, you have to have one of those) will tell you if an alternative is offered and he will also tell you if he feels it is wise for you to accept that offer.

The first goal here is to avoid jail time -- that should be no problem. The next goal is to walk away with your clean record intact. That is POSSIBLE, too. Don't expect to NOT have to pay a price AT ALL. At a minimum, you'll probably have to stand in court in front of the judge and a courtroom full of spectators and lawyers and other defendants -- and have your charges read aloud, then have the judge make you feel REALLY awful for what you did. But if that's ALL that happens, consider yourself lucky. You are humiliated in public, but you'll never see these people again. When you walk out, it's over and that's that.

IF you have a good lawyer, of course.

Good luck.

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Just one more comment (ha!) ... a bit of a clarification on job applications and "clean records". You won't have a 'clean record', because you've already been arrested. That arrest will show up. In my state (Florida) anyone with an internet connection can type in your name and see your mug-shot and arrest record. The arrest record does NOT specify the final disposition of the case (guilty/not-guilty/charges-dropped (that's VERY rare), etc).

And employers are smart enough nowadays to have changed the working on job apps ... they used to ask if you've ever been "convicted" of a crime. Now they ask if you've ever been "arrested". In the case of my company (Verizon), if you say 'no', and the record says otherwise, you are automatically a no-hire. No excuses. Our thinking is, we might hire a pervert (or whatever) but we won't hire a liar. If you say 'yes', it is left up to the hiring manager to decide whether the arrest has a bearing on your employability. In my experience most corporate managers won't give a crap on something like this (I've done hiring/firing for 10 years).

Of course, it's a different situation if you are applying to be a recruiter for the Boy Scouts or a child-care worker or teacher.

And remember, when you have your 'day in court' (hopefully only one day, as Scruffy described, above) ... remember that everyone else in that courtroom is in the same boat. It is their preliminary hearing and they couldn't give a CRAP about you ... they are sweating in their seats waiting for THEIR turn.

I'll go away now.

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Hey, dude...

Please post the link to wherever it is that people can find a record of arrest online in Florida.

I want to see if I'm in there.

I have NEVER heard of such a thing.

I have also never heard of it being legal for an employer to ask if you've ever been arrested. In fact, my attorney told me I would never have to worry about this -- but that was a LONG time ago, perhaps things have changed.

I'm not challenging you here -- I just want to see it for myself. I have a vested interest in the information you provided.

In Florida and in many other states, SEX OFFENDERS are listed, this is true. But I have NEVER heard of bullshit busts for misdemeanors being posted online and/or complete records of arrest. I mean... damn.. that is a LOT of fucking server space required!

I await your response.

Thanks.

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