-- Y'day., (03rd.), I went to 'INDRA MASSAGE.' as usual and was allocated Khun Ting.: 24YO.; from I-San; of avg. height and quite thick-set, works-out most days with a pr. of dumb-bells; speaks better English than most, so fair conversations possible; has a younger bro. and a younger sister both married with children; lives on his own on Rama III.; he's been working there about 3mos.. A pleasant young man.
- Having turned-down the light he was quite happy to remove his shirt and masseur's trousers: often a good sign.
- The massage was alright; although, despite my asking, on the gentle or soft side.
- When he came to massage my shoulders he was a bit hesitant initially about taking-off his u'pants. and my smoking him; but anyway there was his ****, uncut and std. TH.-boi issue, at att'n. already. After that was completed he donned his u'pants. again.
- V. little att'n. was paid to my glutes. and to those places were the sun ... .
- I asked if he were g*y? To wch. he replied that he didn't really know. Further questions elicited that he likes to be a T*p and may be smoked by the right man.
- I smoked him a 2nd. time, wch. he seemed to enjoy - thrusting fwd. his hips and so on; afterwards - at my urging - he didn't put-on his u'pants. again and so I was able to play with him while he massaged my Li'l. Bro. - not all that skillfully.
- As he seemed to have neglected certain parts of me I asked him to lie-down prone and shewed him how to turn-on B*tt*ms so that they would be readier for what would be to follow.

-- Afterwards, and downstairs, I chatted with the MamaSan and learnt that I was only their 2nd. customer at 21.15hrs. - but that a few more came-in later.
- So I suggested to her that to INCREASE business she should do what the bars do - have an 'Happy Hour.' on say mons. to thus. incl., and from opening time to 19hrs.. But with 'PRIME ON SIX.' now open just along the soi she no longer has a monopoly of the g*y massage trade thus she'll have to make her place different from the gen'l. run of such places if she wants to stay in business. Well - we'll see what she'll do; 'Up to her .' to adapt slightly what the TH. boyz are alleged to say - ha!

-- As an aside and picking-up another correspondent's point - while I was being massaged I heard moans & groans of delight emanating from the next door room, where some Ch. man was enjoying a four hands' massage!

-- bibi. --

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It seems to me from your descriptions that Indra isn't really set up to be a sex massage place. If it were, the masseurs would get naked immediately and certainly know that sex services were going to be on the menu. It sounds more like Sukhothai (next to Silom Complex) where they have male masseurs, and you might be able to get a sexual favor, but it's not like an Arena, Hero, Aqua, B&N, etc. -- (which are basically brothels in the disguise of massage parlors).

Am I right?

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Icon.....you are 100% correct. When Indra was located on Soi Sala Daeng, I was the ONLY customer who ever asked for anything (according toone of their massage-lads I had originally met at Tony Massage years ago). Then, the lady-owner lost the lease on that building and had to move. So, when she found the building across from Tawan Bar she knew that she would have to change her "offerings", but didn't account for that when designing the massage rooms.....the walls don't go all the way to the ceiling, there are not doors on the rooms (only curtains), no private bathrooms/showers, etc.

The lady has the right idea but, as Sextile has pointed out a few times, the's NOT the sharpest tool in the shed when it comes to gay businesses. At this point in time, most of the boys aren't surprised when their customers want extras, but they're not about to get naked with you at the outset of the massage as they do at "real" whore houses.

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-- I wouldn't disagree with Billinbkk's analysis.

-- Further to the a/m. chat with the MamaSan I gathered that most of the customers are one-time JP., thus the boyz don't get to 'know' their customers likes and dislikes; possibly these JP. prefer a leisurely strip-show, as opposed to our more 'In an hurry.' Westerners' approach?
- But I u'stand. that very few of her customers are really repeat customers; hence my proposal of an equivalent of the bars' 'Happy hour.' to attract MORE and hopefully cum-again customers - ha!
-- bibi. --

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Located as Indra is in a tourist area, it wouldn't be realistic to expect a high frequency of repeat customers. Not that it isn't possible - after all Tawan has repeat customers galore - but "repeat" may mean 3, 6 or 12 months later.

It looks as if this business has to rely primarily on first-time visitors for a long while before repeat business (if any) keeps it afloat. Hence advertising is essential for the business to take off. It needs to be advertised in gay publications and websites.

That said, generating repeat business among tourists is not impossible. There is a massage parlour in Johor Baru, Malaysia, that does a pretty good job of it (on top of its advertising). It collects the last 4 digits of customers' cellphone numbers and stores it in a computer database. When the customer returns and cites the same last 4 digits, he gets a special deal. It doesn't matter whether he returns 3 weeks or 3 years later. It's the same. it's better than giving out coupons which people lose.

However, Indra's problem may simply be this: it's not clear to customers what the product offer is: located on the same soi as Tawan, people may expect a "get-straight-to-the-point" massage and play act, yet they offer something less than that (unless the customer is as forthright as sextile). So Indra may be LOSING repeat business simply for that reason.

First rule of business: is your product what the market wants?

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From the sounds of sextile's reports, it's definitely not what I want. I want a line-up from which to choose, a Mamasan who will tell me who's well-equipped, who's top and who's bottom. I don't want to have to wrestle a boy out of his skivvies, and I want him to do more sexually than just receive a "favor". Finally, I want a room that is private.

But, other people may want different things. I note that Sukhothai seems to be doing a roaring trade from people who just want a massage from a guy, and perhaps a little grope. I've only been there once, and didn't even get a grope (I did not attempt to initiate anything, though, as the boy I was assigned looked like he'd been living under a bridge after just getting out of prison).

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-- Thus, to comply with this 'First Rule of Business.' 'INDRA MASSAGE.' should survey its customers to find-out what's 'Needed & wanted.'.
- Then, that having been done, it should prepare to deliver.
- But, from my conversations with the MamaSan, that's unlikely to happen for reasons best known to herself.
- Equally I'd say that talking with her about advertising would be a waste of breathe. I doubt if she's even bothered to contact 'Sp*rt*c*s Guide.', as I suggested several weeks ago, for a free entry therein.

-- I daresay that most of 'TAWAN MEN's BAR.' customers are hankering after muscled types, whereas most of 'INDRA's' masseurs are of a slimmer and slighter build - hence the former's customers are unlikely to be the latter's, too.

-- Well, it's not my business; but that having been written I wouldn't like to see it fail.

-- As an aside I see that yet another Massage Parlor has opened in that area: in the same newly built block as 'PRIME ON SIX.' - but it looks to be MORE of a girlie place?

-- bibi. --

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-- Sofar I've enjoyed some dozen masseurs, out of possibly a score on staff, at 'INDRA MASSAGE.': all of them to date have been the usual and std. TH.-boi issue ****.
- Privacy is a rare commodity there.

-- bibi. --

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-- Y'day., 06th.), I went to 'BAAN TEWA.', S. Sathorn 7/1.,(behind SGP. Embassy.), and was assigned to Khun Oo again.
- Shirt & trousers were removed w/o. my asking and u'pants. came-off soon thereafter. It was remarkable just how often his **** and my hand seemed to meet - ha!
- Well, to cut-short a long story I succembed and offered my honor and he honored my offer etc. etc.! He performed manfully and time went-by all too quickly.

-- Afterwards I chatted with Khun Kob, (jnr. partner & mngr.), who told me that he'd prefer it if his clients did not indulge in *n*l s*x as he didn't want his place to become like ... and here he named a couple of other massage parlors that some correspondants have likened to 'Wh*r*houses.'; however hand-jobs and smoking wouldn't be discouraged.
- Should I have Khun Oo next week we'll see what'll occur - but possibly behind CLOSED doors what the eye won't see ... ?

-- bibi. --

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Sounds like the guy wants to sell sex, without owning up to the fact that he sells sex...as if there's some big difference between oral sex and anal sex.

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But wasn't that Bill Clinton's point ("I did not have sex with that woman")? He didn't have real sex, he only had oral sex.

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There is a local concept of 'big sex' (anal penetration) which takes one closer to being seen as 'gay' (if only you are the one being penetrated, compared to 'little sex' (oral, hand jobs etc) which is seen part of growing up for many thai boys (and I guess in all cultures).

My old friend Khun ....., the owner of a now defunct but long running local gay magazine explained this to me years ago. He also mentioned that Thai culture in a way endorses boys 'learning' about sex from each other, rather than having sex with girls (because of risk of prgenancy, and because girls should be virgins when they marry, and simply because men are the dominant gender and they should do whatever pleases them).

But it also needs to be said, the notion that 'all Thai boys have sex with Thai boys' (as many farang would like to believe). if not true (again from my gay magazine friend).

In fact I could fill these pages with volumes of insights he shared with me about male/male sex, the other side of the bar boys trade, hay hi-society parties,etc., etc.

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There is a local concept of 'big sex' (anal penetration) which takes one closer to being seen as 'gay' (if only you are the one being penetrated, compared to 'little sex' (oral, hand jobs etc) which is seen part of growing up for many thai boys (and I guess in all cultures).

My old friend Khun ....., the owner of a now defunct but long running local gay magazine explained this to me years ago. He also mentioned that Thai culture in a way endorses boys 'learning' about sex from each other, rather than having sex with girls (because of risk of prgenancy, and because girls should be virgins when they marry, and simply because men are the dominant gender and they should do whatever pleases them).

But it also needs to be said, the notion that 'all Thai boys have sex with Thai boys' (as many farang would like to believe). if not true (again from my gay magazine friend).

In fact I could fill these pages with volumes of insights he shared with me about male/male sex, the other side of the bar boys trade, hay hi-society parties,etc., etc.

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-- Scoops,
- While one would not want to trespass upon either your willingness or your time for even a tithe of these ' insights' - nor upon our esteemed Moderator's space provided in this thread - yet a few of the MORE pertinent insights might not come amiss.
-- bibi. --

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-- Yet another and new massage parlor has OPENED:
- name: 'MANTRA Health & Massage.';
- address: 37/3, Suriwong rd., (2nd.fl.),
Bang rak;
- loc'n.: on Suriwong rd. and between Siam Comm'l. Bank's Bureau de change and the 'Pink Panther.' girlie bar - opp. to the 'Montein Htl.';
- contact: (02)-632 8275.;
- hrs.:10-02.oo.hrs.;
- pre-opening prices: Foot msg.: 250.; Thai:250..; Aroma/cream: 650.oo.; prices subject to change without notice!

-- Usual disclaimers etc. etc.; E&OE.. -- bibi. --

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