In Medina v. MGM Grand Hotel, Inc. the plaintiff (Medina) alledged discrimination based on sex (gender) in violation of Title VII of the the 1964 Civil Rights Act.

The 9th Circuit Court of Appeals ruled the evidence presented by the plaintiff only supported harassment and discrimination based on his sexual orientation -- not his gender (sex). As such, there was no violation of Title VII of the 1964 Civil Rights Act.

The 9th Circuit Court did agree that Medina had suffered harassment and discrimination because he was an openly gay man. This fact was never in dispute. The 9th Circuit Court further commented that Medina had been criminally assaulted (i.e., co-workers grabbing his crotch and poking their fingers into his anal area through his clothing, as well as verbal taunts; his supervisor condoning such behavior, etc.)and such behavior constituted criminal assault. However, during the two year period Medina worked at the MGM Grand, he never pursued criminal assault charges against his co-workers or against his immediate supervisor for instigating such assaults.

Had Medina's co-workers been openly gay themselves, Medina might have prevailed in alledging a violation of Title VII of the 1964 Civil Rights Act since this act prohibits sexual harassment on the basis of gender.

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RE: Massachusetts State Police

Why would you "now" applaud the Massachusetts State Police for issuing a press release which purports to put a more benevolent face on a law enforcement agency with respect to the enforcement of state sodomy laws? Did the Massachusetts Sodomy Laws (F272-34 and F272-35) suddenly vanish overnight or loose their sinister impact upon gays? It remains to be seen whether or not the State Police will match its new rhetoric with the practical realities of law enforcement.

If you honestly believe the State Police of Massachusetts have turned over a new leaf in law enforcement, then you will have to accept the Salem witch hunts and burnings at the stake were exaggerations or embellishments of innocuous and inconsequential historical facts.

Dwight, come on now, you're not that gullible are you?

[This message has been edited by SunDogg (edited April 03, 2001).]

Given the temper of the times, any progress at all is welcome. George Bush is pledged to repay the religious right, probably by advancing the careers of judges who issue homophobic rulings. He's already nominated John Ashcroft who when he was Missouri state attorney general made sure that people around him had a "normal" sexual orientation.

The Massachusetts policy change isn't the best we could hope for, but at least it's something. I wouldn't reject it because it's short of some imagined optimum. Take note also that progress has occurred in a state run by Democrats. Do not expect it in a Federal government run by Republicans.

The right wing continues to provide political cover for homophobes. The best chance for achieving legal equality is with the Democrats. We don't run pageants or minstrel shows, and we don't cheat people out of their votes.

Policy change? What policy change?

Nothing has changed at all in Massachusetts because its sodomy laws remain on the books. Statements from the Massachusetts State Police are public relations fluff and nothing more.

The best predictor of the future is to look in the recent past. Massachusetts' past in law enforcement speaks for itself, and the fact still remains it still retains the right (sodomy laws) to regulate the sexual behavior of its citizens.

Repeal the sodomy laws and then we can talk about progress. I think we should measure progress based on substance--not style.

Believing that State Police public relations statements have credibility would be like believing the Red Sox are going to win the World Series this year.

Dwight~massachusettes is an ultra-liberal state hardly a bastion of right-wing republicanism!Tell us if you receive a government disability check or receive food stamps?? Do/have you ever had a private sector job??? You obvious expect to be taken care of by government agencies!! I've read enough of your bs to recognize a non-productive welfare recipient who reeks from self-pity and expects others to feel sorry for him. Scape goating conservative republicans for all of your life time failures just doesn't wash!!! You fail to realize the fact that large segments of the gay community would totally reject you and your socialist ideology. Elitist democrats would never 'include' you at their guarded, gated, palatial estates.

Despite all the personal abuse, I am not the subject of this thread -- that's just a distraction. These guys don't want to talk about the actual topic, right wing homophobia.

The right wing is full of people who despise homosexuals and who want to punish gay sex. George Bush is their standard bearer. He owes the religious right a payback for turning out in huge numbers to support him.

What form will the Bush payback take? He has already appointed one homophobe, and we can expect others. We know him for what he is. Don't expect progress in civil rights while George is in office.

Whoever Penis2000 is, he sure has been thoroughly brainwashed by Rush Limbaugh, G.Gordon Liddy and the like...i kept expecting him to spit off something like "left wing pinko commie fag"; what cave did you crawl out of dude? stick a cock down your throat so we don't have to listen to your neanderthal rantings.

Penis is correct....but in true left-wing
fashion Swallowme wants to silence him...just see his last post.

I don't think that the majority of the gay community needs to fear the right-wing or
Republicans. Keep in mind that these two groups are not always the same. I think we need to fear the "left-wing, activist thought-police" which is so evident in these boards.

Sunn and Penis....and all others who have the courage to challenge the looney-left...go ahead. We need some words of wisdom or at least common sense.

One thing the lefties may find interesting is the FACT that President Bush won the election and he carried Florida...See both CNN and FoxNews sites for the news from yesterday..so there should be no more whinning about Bush not winning........I know this is almost ancient history but why do we never hear from these same whinners about the fact that Kennedy (JFK) "stole" the 1960 election...just how many dead people in Chicago and San Antonio voted for him...and they were so orderly that they even did it in alphabetical order (LOL).....more of the double standard !! It seems that it is OK for Saint JFK do win by dead people..but President Bush is critized for winning and taking the prize!!

I call on the moderator to intervene and remove the posts that are nothing but personal abuse. I've tried to keep the discussion at a high level. But the responses have take the form of insults directed at me personally. Words like "looney" or "gullible" or "fascist" or "zombie" are directed at me as though they addressed the topic.

May we once again get back on track? I say that the right wing provides political cover for homophobes, and that George Bush will be bad for gays. We ought to be able to discuss this like civilized people. Maybe the gay right really is as oxymoronic as it sounds.

Mamo Verga~

not trying to "silence" anybody(as if i could) i just can't stand when rational discourse degenerates into "left wing looney commie pinko fag" talk. i just wish you would ALL realize that NEITHER party is on your side. i choose the lesser of two evils, while the right wingers amongst you choose to make a deal with the devil and vote your pocketbooks. you wouldn't have the comfort level to be out(assuming you are) if it weren't for some pissed-off drag queens at Stonewall and the gay communists who started the Mattachine society.

you right wing guys do the dirty work for the bible-thumpers. sleeping with the enemy, you are apologists all. next time you suck a cock, remember that 99% of the memebership of the party you so cherish would like you to be arrested if not executed for your behaviour.

just for the record, i don't particularly care for the chest thumping of the Democrat supporters either. their case would be a lot more supportable without the "join the Democrats" cheerleading. (sorry Dwight)

dwight calls president bush 'scumbag' then starts whinning and requests that the moderator remove posts that call him names i.e. typical liberal hypocrisy!! you have never responded to any of your critics but constantly make personal, ad hominem attacks against them! this thread has absolutely nothing to do with gay rights, in reality it all boils down to what dwight and his ilk expect from government. they feel incapable of taking care of themselves and are scared that gop conservatives will make them take more individual responsibility, stop being parasites and have some repect for taxpayers -- NOT TAXUSERS!! Big government is your real enemy!!

Posted by Penis:
"...this thread has absolutely nothing to do with gay rights, in reality it all boils down to what dwight and his ilk expect from government. they feel incapable of taking care of themselves and are scared that gop conservatives will make them take more individual responsibility, stop being parasites and have some repect for taxpayers -- NOT TAXUSERS!! Big government is your real enemy!!"

I don't agree with you, Penis. The real enemy is a collective force of people who dismiss those who are not afraid to challenge the status quo. No one is above being challenged. None of us are separate from the current American system that undeniably favors certain genders/ethnic groups/sexual orientations over others.

When you suggest that certain people are parasites who don't know how to stand on their own, are you suggesting that certain non-White or even non-male individuals who aren't heterosexuals demand "special rights" when they claim that they don't get the same benefits as others in America?

You are clearly one of the new species of Dot.Com Guppies that Swallow alluded to when he mentioned gays who sell out ideals for the benefit of their pocket books. You may be sitting pretty now. But, woe be to you and YOUR ILK when the bucks are gone. Then you will just be another faggot without position or cash to buy him a place at the Captain's Table.

Guppies like you, the Andrew Sullivans, and the Log Cabin groupies are not part of any revolutionary movement interested in promoting gay freedom. You are out for yourselves while you can afford to be out for yourselves.

Unlike the the grass-roots activists who took to the streets during the historical Stonewall riots, you couldn't care less about breaking a sweat if it does not earn you a buck. Your motives are clear. Your objectives are purely financial.

"Get Big Government Out Of Our Lives" translates to "I can't be bothered with people who can't make it in White corporate America because they cannot pass for White, or are not men, or cannot pass for straight."

Watch it, Penis. Those welfare folks, brown-skinned peasants, and radical faggots might get real angry REAL soon and pull you and your ilk out of their ivory towers and into the steets again.

It's happened before.

jake~ i am a blue collar, NON UNION, bi-sexual male who drives an 18 wheeler for a living. I live in a very working class neighborhood. My sexual preference is strictly caucasian for both sexes. I have zero attraction nor sympathy towards black people and make no apologies for the way I feel. Many gay or bi-sexual white males reject your concept that we are victimized, persecuted, oppressed and discriminated against! Black people must learn to accept the fact that at certain places they just are not welcome! I can repudiate every one of your arguments based on logic, reason and data from reliable sources. Name calling and personal attacks are diversion tactics used when you are unable to properly defend your arguments!! I don't and have never belonged to any white supremacist organizations. I am sick of political correctness and my real hatred: socialism!

Every time I read one of Jake2001's thinly disguised Neo-Marxist renderings, I hear a faint tune in the background that sounds vaguely familiar like the Internationale of a bygone era. What next Jake2001? Storming the Winter Palace in Saint Petersberg (Florida)?

We Gay Capitalists (read: Conservatives) eschew Leftist dogma that proclaims "revolution" in the pursuit of gay rights. What we are about is equal rights for gays -- not special "gay" rights or a special class distinction. Our principled position remains unchanged; we seek equal rights for gays because it is a moral entitlement and imperative. We continue to seek equality before the law, maximum freedom of association, and the social disapproval of discrimination. Discrimination against people simply because of their sexual orientation exists and is wrong. But, it is not the role of law to correct every wrong. Law is not, and has not been, the panacea to sex and racial discrimination and will not be for sexual orientation. We must have rights equal to straights. We are entitled to nothing less--but also nothing more.

Posted by Penis:
"I have zero attraction nor sympathy towards black people and make no apologies for the way I feel. Many gay or bi-sexual white males reject your concept that we are victimized, persecuted, oppressed and discriminated against!"

Many gay or bi-sexual White males are NOT discriminated against in the manner that non-White males -- Gay or Straight -- are in America. Obviously, that makes it easier for them to reject concepts of victimization, persecution, oppression, or discrimination that probably never enter their world. White Gay men are often not subject to the same level of discrimination nor do many of them experience it to the same extent that non-White Gay men OR WOMEN suffer it in America. Your dismissal of Black people validates my my point about arrogance and cultural insensitivity. Your comments make it clear that you see no reason to understand or feel compassion for those who are not White.

Posted by Penis:
"Black people must learn to accept the fact that at certain places they just are not welcome!"

This comment says it all. No need to respond to it.

Posted by Penis:
"I can repudiate every one of your arguments based on logic, reason and data from reliable sources. Name calling and personal attacks are diversion tactics used when you are unable to properly defend your arguments!! I don't and have never belonged to any white supremacist organizations. I am sick of political correctness and my real hatred: socialism!"

Socialism was never mentioned by me. I broght up the differences in cultural experiences in America. That makes me a Socialist in your eyes? Where is this name calling and these diversionary tactics that you speak about, Penis? Take a look at your own comments. I don't even need to spell things out. You have done a beautiful job of exposing your own tendency to insult others who are not White while also making accusations that apply more to yourself than others.

Posted by Sun:
"Every time I read one of Jake2001's thinly disguised Neo-Marxist renderings, I hear a faint tune in the background that sounds vaguely familiar like the Internationale of a bygone era."

Here we go again with the Commie/Pinko name calling. Your accusing ME of reminding you of a bygone era, Sun? LOL! Your Red baiting Neo-Conservative stance went out with Joe McCarthy in the 1950's. LOL!

Posted by Sun:
"We Gay Capitalists (read: Conservatives) eschew Leftist dogma that proclaims 'revolution' in the pursuit of gay rights. What we are about is equal rights for gays -- not special 'gay' rights or a special class distinction. Our principled position remains unchanged; we seek equal rights for gays because it is a moral entitlement and imperative. We continue to seek equality before the law, maximum freedom of association, and the social disapproval of discrimination. Discrimination against people simply because of their sexual orientation exists and is wrong. But, it is not the role of law to correct every wrong. Law is not, and has not been, the panacea to sex and racial discrimination and will not be for sexual orientation. We must have rights equal to straights. We are entitled to nothing less--but also nothing more."

Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah. Sun, you talk in such strategically political circles without ever saying anything or making a firm stand that it is beyond laughable. Let's get this straight, Bud. You want rights equal to straights. But, you don't want "special rights" or a "special class distinction?"

Sun, I have never heard such HORSE SHIT in my life. You consistently parade Gays about as if they are just like Straight people -- except for the fact that some like to fuck each other up the ass and get bashed for looking queer, etc.! You don't see how assanine your stance is regarding Gays and "normal" standards as dictated by White heterosexual men in America?

Let me point something out to you. The reason Gays get bashed, killed, entrapped, discriminated against, etc. is because they are obviously seen as a threat because of their DIFFERENCE. Ignoring this and trying to "blend" won't change the hatred that breeds homophobia.

You are a sell-out, Sun. The fear inherent in your "conservative" agenda disgusts me. But, it explains your dismissal of those (like me) who continue to rock the boat. We bring Gays like you unwanted attention. How you must hate us. Yet, I also suspect that you somehow envy us as well, Sun. We have something that you and your "conservative" buds lack. We are not afraid to admit to being different. We have the courage to celebrate our cultural difference and embrace our diversity. This goes against everything that you promote in your wishy-washy posts that glorify blending and conformity.

God forbid anyone should see you as a bona fide HOMOSEXUAL.

You're a lightweight, Sun. You belong outside of the ring with the other "viewers" and non-contenders. The rest of us are not afraid to stay IN the ring as heavy-weight contenders.

[This message has been edited by Jake2001 (edited April 06, 2001).]

Well jake you did exactly as I expected: personal attacks & name calling.Logic & reason are not in your vocabulary! Black folk are 95% liberal democrats. Jesse Jackson,Al Sharpton, Maxine Waters, naacp, etc. seem to speak for you and represent your ideas.It almost seems as if every black thinks the same way. We constantly observe that gay/bi sexual males are far more diverse and there is a broad spectrum of opinion, which I think is fantastic! You have learned that not all of us will 'kiss your ass' nor are we afraid to disagree with you! My question to you: Would you allow professior shockley or jensen's theory to be heard, objectively and rationally discussed???? No booing, jeering, heckling, disruptions, etc. Verite means the truth- are you afraid of it??The nation has every right to hear what these scientists had to say.You must learn to attack the message not the messenger!!