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#1
16th February 2005, 04:10 PM
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Hi, recently I started dating someone... but I'm not gonna get into the emotional details of this story. This has really affected me emotionally and I'm coping with it the best I can, but it is such a difficult situation and I just want to stick with the purpose of this thread.
Anyways, we dated a few times and we kissed a few times. Nothing rough, just nice and slow french kissing, very passionate. After 3 weeks, just when I was really liking this guy (we saw each other every day and chemistry was incredible) he confeses me he's HIV+. First I was really confused, I didn't really knew that much about the virus, then I was really really sad, I had though of this guy as "the" guy. Then, I was scared as hell. I remembered I had bit myself while eating and like two hours later (maybe less?) I was kissing him. He doesn't have sores or cuts in his mouth, but still I really don't know the risk of me getting it from kissing him couple of hours after biting myself while eating. I'm just scared to death from getting HIV and it just wouldn't be fair because I've always taken so much care of myself and now I get it from kissing a guy a really really liked. I guess I have not luck whatsoever.
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#2
16th February 2005, 04:30 PM
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I hate being the bearer of bad news, but what happened would put you into a high risk category. You didn't say when this happened, and that's really important.
If it was within the past 48 hours, you would be a prime candidate for post exposure prophyllaxis, which usually consists of 2 anti HIV drugs taken for 30 days. Past 48 hours, antiviral treatment probably won't abort an infection. Saliva does confer some protection against the virus, and routine kissing is not considered high risk. In your case, infectious fluids did get exchanged, and you did have an open wound which would allow entry, so all bets are off. The LIKELYHOOD of your getting infected from this encounter is slim. But it is very possible, and you need to speak to a doctor or clinic that deals with HIV ASAP. This is not a "we can see you in 3 weeks" situation. I know it's scary as shit, but please, don't waste time. Dr Danny |
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#4
17th February 2005, 11:31 AM
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1. Saliva contains HIV virus. Tongues touched. His tongue had his saliva with his virus (we don't know how much) in your mouth. Hence "infectious fluid" It isn't limited to blood or semen.
2. You bit your mouth. You interrupted a protective barrier. On a size scale, think of the virus particle as a Boston Marathon runner. All of them running down the New England Throughway. Now PLEASE, don't argue, see your doctor pronto! I may have the time frame off regarding the bite and the kissing, and that is why you need to talk, face to face, with a physician. Dr Danny |
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#5
17th February 2005, 02:31 PM
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Chevo:
Listen to the doc! To clarify a bit -- saliva is not considered "as infectious" as other body fluids. Perhaps this is the basis of your confusion here. It is difficult to quantify your personal risk in this real-life situation. There are lots of variables. Do be aware that oral cuts tend to heal rapidly in healthy individuals. Even if the cut you had in your mouth was not fully healed in a matter of a few hours, most likely the bleeding had stopped and healing had at least BEGUN. This is good news. But it's also speculation, so bear that in mind. To Doctor Danny: I thought HIV prophylaxis treatment was only available to health care workers at this time. In fact, I was fairly sure I read something recently which mentioned that "they" are trying to get approval (from who?) to release HIV meds to the general population in situations such as this where prevention is at least still possible. Is this information incorrect? Can "regular folks" get HIV prophylaxis? If so -- that's great! I'm glad to be incorrect. Chevo, there ARE reported cases (very few) of HIV being transmitted from kissing. In most instances, both individuals had some severe gingivitis going on with lots of oral lesions and bleeding. These are cases CONFIRMED by the CDC. This means we only know that these have been documented as true. The number of cases of HIV transmitted from kissing is not absolute. There may be many more incidents that are not confirmed or even remotely provable within real-world sexual contact. "Impossible" is not a good word to use when discussing medical issues. SOME things are certainly medically impossible -- women don't get pregnant from holding hands with a man -- but placing a clear-cut label of "yes" or "no" on something as complicated as HIV can be a mistake. No one here is trying to frighten you. I would like very much to tell you that I feel HIGHLY CONFIDENT that you will be fine. But you need to take immediate action just the same. You may be in for a few rotten days ahead, but when they are over I hope to have you come back here and let us know that everything worked out for you. It would also be a good idea to get tested again in three months or six months or both. Meanwhile, if prophylaxis is available to you and you meet the time-frame criterion -- get it done! Finally... it's evident that you are also emotionally and spiritually stressed by this turn of events in your relationship. A partner who begins and relationship with a lie of omission is not a suitable partner, in my opinion. I'm sorry you have to deal with this, but overall I think it's much better that at least you know NOW before any future sexual encounters led to anything even MORE high-risk. Should you wish to discuss the other aspects of your situation, the mental and emotional stresses involved, start a new thread and I'm sure lots of us guys would be glad to help you out. Let us know how you are doing and what you find out, please. I don't want to be left hanging on this one, OK? If I stated anything here that is medically inaccurate, Dr. Danny will make the necessary corrections -- listen to HIM first. Take care. |
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#6
17th February 2005, 04:16 PM
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I have an appointment on monday, I'm going to get a consult appt. and get tested also. I may ask for a DNA PCR testif it is available and affordable (to me at this time), this test is 95% accurate 28 days later after exposure (25 have already passed
 ). I'm scared as hell. I DID speak to his nurse the day of exposure, just right after he told me he was HIV+ because I 'freaked out.' She said that unless he had bleeding gums and/or bleeding cuts than I shouldn't worry about it. He didn't, so we assumed I "didn't have anything to worry about", but still I had my doubts, that is why I posted this thread. I read there is just one 1997 report of a woman getting the virus by kissing from her husband, I haven't heard of any others. Still, it is hard to be optimistic about this and I'm already thinking I have it. Dr. Danny: Thank you so much for your time and I really wasn't trying to argue like that. I AM listening to what you're telling me and I do understand that even though it is very unlikely, it IS theoretically possible. I'm late for prophyllaxis and the doctors at the clinic mustn't think it is necessary because because I did explain my situation and they just gave me an appointment for next monday. Trying to think possitive here... I haven't had any symptons... and I'm praying I end up in the 'unlikely' side of the situation. I'm going to try to see a physician also like you said and try to see if a can get a more accurate test than ELISA (time-wise). I just can't keep up with this anxiety for 6 months, it's not like it's my only problem. So again, thank you for your help, and I'll keep in touch Scruffycub! 
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#7
17th February 2005, 04:20 PM
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It would be way beyond the ethical pale to offer post exposure prophyllaxis only to physicans/health care workers. It's just we have almost instant access to care/meds.
It boils down to a time frame. If someone walked into my office, admitted to unprotected, receptive anal sex the night before, complete with ejaculation, I would say a few Hail Maries, cross my fingers, and write the prescriptions. If the same guy (gal) came into my office with the same story except the exposure was 3 or 4 days ago, I wouldn't. We don't really know that post exposure prophyllaxis really works, what the best recipe is, etc. It looks like 48 hours is the upper limit of success. And frequently, triple drugs after a deep needle stick fails Chevo, your posting went on as I was typing. For what it's worth, the acute flu like illness associated with HIV infection usually starts 7-14 days after exposure. You haven't described symptoms, saliva is not overly infection, so in all likelyhood, you are going to be fine. A few grey hairs, perhaps, but fine. You are in for a few really rocky days, and a roller coaster of emotion. I know, been there myself. But go throught the testing, and you will sleep a lot better when it's over. My final bit of philosophy/theology: There are no atheists in the foxholes. Good luck, please, keep us/me posted Dr Danny |
Drifting OT
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#11
18th February 2005, 04:43 PM
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Doc: hey, what's more to say than "thanks again?" I'm not sure how or why or where I read that tidbit about prophylaxis for health-care professionals. Glad to hear it is not true. Maybe -- but don't quote me -- I'm thinking of some sort of loophole legislation that is trying to get passed that would make it faster and easier to get these meds. I recall some sort of debate regarding the efficacy of this. Yet it addressed the problem the doc mentioned -- the timeline for prophylactic treatment. If this is the case, of course I'd love to see meds available immediately after unprotected sex.
Chevo: I'm quite confident you'll be fine -- but I like to make sure dudes FOLLOW THROUGH. Sometimes a little worrying is necessary to make sure that happens -- but you did all the right things on your own. One comment about sero-conversion sickness (the flu-like illness sometimes reported after HIV infection): the keyword here is "sometimes." This illness does NOT always happen. Quite often guys come flying into online message boards or chat rooms worrying that they caught a cold after sex and believe it to be HIV infection. Almost always... it's just a cold. The presence of cold or flu-like symptoms does not indicate HIV -- nor does the absence of them indicate that there was no infection. That's just for the record -- I'm aware it isn't all that pertinent to this post. |
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#12
18th February 2005, 06:54 PM
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Scruffy has just hit on one of the more fascinating aspects of this horror, the "flu like illness"
True, it doesn't always happen, BUT... The majority of guys (so I'm a sexist, eat me), who are infected do get sick initially. High fever, tender, swollen lymph glands, fatgue and more than 50% with a flat, very red, non raised, spotty rash. It's more like mono than a cold. If it happened to me a week or two after I had been messing around, I would freak out, and heavens (ahem, atheists in foxholes, pardon em moi) knows, I've got a bit of knowledge between these ears. And this "cold" lasts up to 2 weeks! Gentlemen, we are facing the worst crisis since 1981, and once again we, and the media, are burying our collective heads in the sand. Please protect yourself, because the other guy isn't going to . And God forbid you get sick, it isn't Bush's fault. It's yours! |
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#13
19th February 2005, 05:29 AM
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If an HIV positive person brushes and flosses his teeth and there is some residual gum bleeding afterwards, the presence of HIV in saliva can be assumed and does pose a risk to someone with an open wound in or near the mouth cavity.
Rather than minimize the exposure risk ... get tested! We probably should put in a plug for maintaining good dental hygiene (brush, floss, and use a good mouthwash/antiseptic) since kissing is obviously not a risk-free practice. RE: The "flu-like" Symptoms. Last fall, we began the flu season with a shortage of flu vaccine. Who do you think got the flu vaccine? Given the shortage of the flu vaccine, there is a high probability a person might have had "flu-like" symptoms and would never be any more wiser -- it could be something else. This is something that can't be taken for granted.
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Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves. And, under a just God, cannot long retain it. -- Abraham Lincoln |
Bleeding Gums
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#14
20th February 2005, 12:13 PM
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Let me start by saying this answer is in no way an endorsement for unsafe sexual practices. It is just one person's experience. I am on meds and the virus is undetectable in my blood. The theory (unproven of course) is that I am, therefore less likly to be infectious.
Chevo, go to thebody.com and on the left, click on safe sex. There you will probable find a question just like yours and an answer. If not, then submitt your question to the experts. The one thing you will notice over and over again is the number of guys who are convinced they caught HIV, but didn't (and there are some really silly questions, like getting a lap dance with clothing on) HIV is not an easy disease to catch. Many things have to go wrong at just the right time. In my case, I had unprotected sex with my wife for nearly 3 months after infection BUT before diagnosis. She tested then, 30 days, 60 days and six months... she is not infected. I had receptive anal with a buddy once during that time.....he's not infected. The fact that you bit your mouth should be of some concern, but it's not an automatic infection. It is all still theory, but the thought is that you need a huge (or several) exposure to get infected, which didn't occur in your case. My wife and I still deep kiss. We both know there is some risk, but it is minimal and acceptable to us. Same for cunnilingus, though I discourage her from fellatio and would never come in her mouth. As for the PCR test, yeah, very expensive. Just a normal VL test for me runs over $450. PCR is even more....it is DNA testing, afterall. BTW, my wife e-mails a friend in Canada who also has a poz husband (ain't the internet wonderful?). They had a condom malfunction about 40 days ago. She went on PEP and the good news at her 30 day test is she too is neg. The current window for starting PEP is 48-72 hours. |
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#15
20th February 2005, 10:58 PM
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Hey everyone! Tomorrow is my test, so nervious, I'll recieve the results on wednesday. Thanks to everyone here... been great help!
I visited body.com and according to them: 1. There isn't a CDC documented case about infection through kissing. I'll be making history here! The 1997 case ended up being classified as inconclusive. 2. My case is considered a low-risk situation... I wouldn't apply for a PCR test unless I want to pay tons of cash. 3. Saliva is NOT considered infectious fluid as of now, with or w/out a cut/sore from the uninfected person. Saliva has some protein that kills the virus and it's acid level also help. Also, in the patients that they found the virus in saliva, it was in very low concentrations (not enough for infection). Theoretically I guess it is still possible, that is the only reason I might be nervous, but winning the lottery is also possible. Some facts that also help my anxiety level to lower a bit are: 1. The infected person's viral load is "undetectable" right now. AKA <400 count. This lowers the risk of infection even more. 2. He wasn't bleeding through sores or cuts and we didn't kiss anytime directly after brushing our teeth. Plus, the mouth is one of the body's parts that acts more rapidly towards wounds' curation. 3. I don't believe in bad luck (just the lack of it )
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laterz |
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