[KINGR]

I'M 60 and husky. I go to ABS and younger guys open the door, look in and run out like I have the plague. Once in a while (not often enough) one stays for a bit of hot sex and seems very satisfied. Sex drive does not stop at age 50 and 200 lb weight. Give it a try. You might be surprised how great it is.....

[Maninasses]

I'm not going to be cruel here but I will be honest. I'm 54. Ancient by Gay society standards. But I am unattached which means that if I'm looking for a partner for sex or a relationship I'm fighting the odds. So I've chosen to fight the middle age spread and keep fit because, A) I want to live a long a healthy life and, B) because to me and to most people, fat is a turn-off. Not only is it unattractive it usually means the person has decided to give-in to overindulgence, inactivity and inattention to general good health. These are factors opposite to virility and masculinity. People want sex with someone who exudes manliness, confidence, a zest for life in a mental and physical sense. It's just not reasonable to expect anyone, much less a young person to look at your body and get turned on by you. Sure, your sex-drive is strong but be honest, when you want to be with someone do you look for someone who is old and fat? OK, that was borderline cruel but again, be honest with yourself. You CAN be better and live smarter to gain back a body that is more attractive. The returns are generous...you'll have more energy, think better, sleep less time and awake energized, you'll have a better outlook and project more confidence. Soon you'll find you won't have to look for dick, the dick will come to you. Now, the old thing...some dudes look at my S&P hair (buzzcut) and look the other way. Nuthin' I can do about that and so what? They'll be old someday too (with luck) and frankly, there a still plenty of guys who see my age and are attracted to it. I get cruised everyday and to be honest I know I wouldn't if I let myself get fat.
Pal, my advice is to either join a local Chubbie-Chaser club and hope some of the dudes you're asking to "try a fat guy" are there for you OR take control and make yourself into someone you yourself would cruise. The alternative is to abandon all hope of having sex and become obese, limiting your indulgence to food as a subsitute for sex. From the stats about Americans and obesity, it appears that many of us are doing just that.
Your life- anyone's life is always up for review and improvement. Now may be the time for a "reality check" and decide that how others perceive and respond to you is honestly NOT what needs to change.
Good luck my man and make yourself a promise to not give in to being old, fat and depressed, but rather mature, fit and fantastic. It is all possible as long as you're above ground and breathing.
Do it and post again so we know you're feeling better, OK?

[ButchMascGuy]

Everyone, without exception, is going to get older. It doesn't matter if you are Gay, Straight, Bisexual, or whatever label you are subscribing to these days -- all will get older. We might as well accept the inevitability that we are all going to get old.

Now, so what if you are 50, 60, 70 or older? Yes, 50-something males want and need sex. So do 60, 70 and older males. This is not a well-guarded secret. I'm in my 30's and I plan to have lots of sex for as long as I desire it.

As a 30-something male, who was once a teenager and then a 20-something male, I do not subscribe to the school of thought that teaches us aging is a vice or sin and we ought to avoid it at all costs. You might be several generations removed from the current generation of young males that have just emerged from high school with only a rudimentary knowledge about what makes their penises erect and causes their testosterone levels to fluxuate, but it is not a valid reason buy into the thinking you no longer fit in or are welcome in a culture you helped to create. The reason why we have a Gay culture is because of those men who came before us and made great personal sacrifices to become a part of that culture when the odds were stacked against us. The odds are still stacked against us even though we have made many steady gains over the years.

As a 30-something male, I am always mindful and greatful for those who made it possible for me to be a part of a gay culture that emphasized the unselfish principle of inclusiveness. It seems to me that a 50-something male has earned the respect and right to be included in a culture they helped to build. In that respect, a 50, 60, or older male ought to be included in our culture since it was they who made it possible for us to be a part of that culture today.

There are some aspects of our gay culture that need to be addressed in the context of how we fit into that culture. The very idea that we must somehow comform to some "idealized fitness" norm is pure, unadulterated bovine scatology. A simple "fuck you Charlie" would be the most appropriate response to someone who would dare to suggest older males are no longer welcome to be part of a culture they helped to create. And should someone dare to suggest you must comform to this "idealized fitness" norm to remain a part of that culture, a simple "Fuck you Charlie" response is the only appropriate answer to anyone who thinks along those lines.

If you are a Gay teen or a 20, 30, or 40-something male, be damned greatful to those older males who made it possible for you to be a part of a culture they helped to build despite some of its shortcomings. Our gay culture is not perfect and neither are the men who are a part of it. Our gay culture was and is built upon the principle of inclusiveness. If growing old and not comforming to this "idealized fitness" norm are sins, we might as well join the legions of men living their lives in isolation on the margins of society.

When I become a 50-something male, I have no intention of living my life in isolation on the margins of society. So, at this point in my young life, I'll simply say "Fuck you Charlie" well in advance of my golden years because I mean to offend those who merit such contempt. If gay culture is to thrive, we must do what is in the best interest of everyone. What is key to gay culture and it's growth is the bedrock principle of inclusiveness. Anything less is unacceptable and ought to offend our sensibility. Those who have contributed to that culture not only deserve our respect, they are also entitled to the same undiminished dignity and the grace that accrues over an entire lifetime.

[mascguybost]

Butch, if your response was a stand alone essay, I would completely agree, but in response to the post, I'm not sure it applies here.

Rejecting someone you're not attracted to at an ABS is not grounds for being convicted of subscribing to the "idealized fitness" norm our culture has created, and that includes the 60 year old man.

On a purely sexual level, we are all attracted to different types and if someone is not getting the kind or frequency of play they care for, then there are ways to attain it, within reason of course and I think Man addressed the issue appropriately.

Back to your thoughts Butch, I do agree that there's and "ideal fintess" norm in our culture as our culture is highly sexualized and this is where the walls come up and prevent us from being more united so to speak. Because we are all male, any kind of first interaction with each other can be a potential date, sexual encounter etc., and it's difficult to meet guys on a purely social level, hence, creating great gaps between generations in gay men as well as gaps between different "types" of gay men, be it bears, jocks, circuit guys etc.

In my own life I do try to make an effort to swarth that off and meet different types of guys.

So, I agree with both posts here, yet in two different kinds of situations.

[ButchMascGuy]

I was not responding directly to the preceeding postings. Rather, I was drawing attention to something that has crept into our Gay Culture that mirrors what is probably most repugnant in mainstream American society.

As Gay and Bisexual males, we've had to endure many indignities thrust upon us by mainstream society and it's culture of social exclusion. This culture of social exclusion predates the birth of this nation whose early settlers sought religious freedom from the tyranny of oppressive governments and the mainstream societies that cultivated social exclusion on the principle of noncomformity. While America's landscape has changed over the centuries, it's culture of social exclusion has acquired permanence and stains the social fabric of our nation.

The social fabric of America is a patchwork quilt of many cultures that together, as a whole, is a magnificant work of art that is both envied and despised for it's simple design and unmatched strength. What continues to stain and weaken our social fabric is a culture of social exclusion that has crept into our Gay Culture, undermining the bedrock principle of inclusiveness which embraces our diversity and strengthens our resolve for justice and equity.

It is not enough to sound the clarion's trumpet when some members of our gay culture have been seduced by the attractiveness of "idealized" norms borne out of the fiction of comformity. If gay culture is to survive, it must thrive and grow on the bedrock principle of inclusiveness which embraces our diversity and strengthens our resolve for justice and equity.

I fail to see how our gay culture can survive if social exclusion for the most selfish reasons demands comformity to "idealized" norms borne out of fiction. It isn't so much that "idealized" norms are a bad thing in and of themselves. What does matter, I would hope, is that gay culture serves our best interests and our "idealized" norms are borne out of principles that embrace our diversity and stengthen our resolve for justice and equity.

Justice and equity cannot be achieved if our culture is a mirror reflection of that which is most repugnant to our sensibility. Mainstream American society is culturally diverse but still socially excludes us from participating in that society because we have rejected comformity on the high principle of inclusiveness that embraces our diversity and strengthens our resolve for justice and equity.

[GayWhiteTrash]

All that justice and equity crap is fine and dandy but KINGR was just commenting on younger guys not finding him sexually appealing. I think most older guys set themselves up for disappointment when they set thier sights on guys that are 20 or 30 years younger than themselves. I'm 49 and I sure as hell don't want to have sex with a guy that's 79 and I don't expect a 19 year old to want to have sex with me. I cruise a lot and 9 times out of 10 I hook up with someone but then I'm always seeking sex from guys that are within 5 or 10 years of my age.

[Doya66]

I took the first response to this post as a wake-up call, and hope to get my butt away from the computer and out moving around more! There is no doubt that we age, but taking basic steps to be healthy no matter what our age is a huge help in attracting sexual partners and enjoying life overall. There's plenty of dick to go around, and if we try to maintain ourselves in a condition that makes us a good sex partner, we'll always get our share! I'm not saying that everybody has to spend his life in a gym, bet there is a lot to be said for just trying to stay healthy. And if you're into twinks, I know from experience that there are a lot that enjoy playing with Daddy occasionally- just try to be up to the task.

One final note: The ABS is about pure sex and doing who you want to do. It can be a lot of fun, but it is brutal for the ego! The fact is that even ugly guys will turn you down if you don't trip their trigger at that moment. The Internet is cruel, but at least it is not face-to-face rejection!

[sandog]

doya hit it right on the head. I happen to love older guys but I really get annoyed by older guys complaining about not getting enuf sex when all they're looking for are ppl 20-30 years younger than themselves. That makes you a chicken hawk and no one likes that.
Ask yourself if someone your age approached you would you have sex with them. If no, then you shouldn't complain about a guy 20-30 yrs younger than you not wanting to have sex with a guy your age. All you 50-60 year olds who can't understand why a 20-30 year old won't have sex would you, why would they if you yourself think someone such as yourself is too old for even you? That's just hypocritical.

[Maninasses]

-but let's be honest...the epitome of physical beauty and sexual attractiveness is reached in your 20's. It's only natural to want someone sexually when they are of that age. Unfortunately we don't live in Xanadu and our bodies change. You can't blame an older guy for lusting after a young, hot dude so the problem is really only in asking that the older guys like me learn to gracefully accept that the prime of our physical beauty is past and to respectfully behave when seeking partners. I just got back from the gym and steam afterwards. There were 2 middle-aged guys in the steam, both morbidly obese, both totally naked with their legs spread as if they were displaying something to be proud of. It was frankly disgusting and sadly pathetic that they were so blind to their unattractiveness as to "proudly" display it to the uninterested. I agree that too many "older" guys are rude, persistently pushy and totally oblivious to subtle "not interested" signals. Now, on the other hand there were several guys on the workout floor in their 40's and 50's who were fit and very attractive. It's hard work to stay in shape past your 30's but by golly they were proof that it's possible! And these guys weren't leering at the rest of the crowd like some hungry hawk. Meanwhile the fat slobs in the steamroom had attitudes like they were the Prime Rib on the menu! Unfortunately some of us seek sex in venues that attract these types that let themselves go but still think sex with them is a privelege.
There's several lessons for all in this scenario created by the original poster;
1) if you're old and fat you're gonna get less sex, it's a fact of life so don't put the guilt on those who don't want you. Fix yourself up, change your attitude and politely respect that no matter what you look like, not everyone is not going to want you.
2) accept that as a Gay man, if you want to be sexually attractive it's going to take some extra work to keep yourself marketable. Don't delude yourself by thinking that just because you're old and fat that membership in the Chubby Chaser club is going to skyrocket for your pleasure.
3) accept that yes, when you're young and hot lots of people of all ages are going to want you. You can't stop the fat old guys from looking at you. Just try not to hurt their feelings when you turn them down. They were once young and hot too and in that little corner of all us older guys' heads there's that lingering reality that we still are. Just wait, you'll find out what I'm talking about
4) Youth is a fleeting gift. It's hard to recognize that fact when you're in the midst of your prime, but please try to remember that it is just that. One day, those lyrics from "Memories" ("Cats") will mean so much..."I was beautiful then..."
5) Aging is its own gift. With it comes the fact that many things of youth must be left behind...a painful task, but on the other hand many things -even greater things more valuable than youthful beauty are just developing. Learn to embrace them and you will always be vital and attractive in your own special way.
6) Just being alive is remarkable and precious. All my dead friends would agree I'm sure. A day without sex still beats one six feet under.

[Int2ectual]

by the way i think men in their thirties are MUCH hotter than men in their 20s.

we live in a youth worshipping ageist society and in an ABS people are making choices at the MOST superficial level.

as a society we tend to be a little schizophrenic about body weight. as a society we have been packing on the pounds but when we go to the movies we want bodies like brad pitt's. same in the ABS.

healthy people are generally more attractive and overweight people are generally (but not always) less healthy looking.

in my 20s i certainly turned heads. now i'm 52 and i don't expect men in their 20s or 30s to look at me twice. if one does that's great. (i had a guy 25 yrs my junior persue me and we had a good three year relationship).

in general i think men my age are very attractive (thank goodness). i try to use this yardstick, if i want to attract guys with six-pack abs and a dick of death, i'll be most successful if i can offer something similar in return. i don't have a hard body or a big dick and those are not the criteria i use as top considerations when looking for date or sex partner. what i find surprising are the overweight guys in their 50s and 60s (often NOT in as good shape as i am) who also don't give me a second look because they are holding out for a twink. if that is KINGR's issue then he has set himself up for dissappointment.

[ScruffyCub]

Holy shit.

A lot of these responses are based on assumption. Sometimes this is simply fun to do -- to speak hypothetically when taking small bits of information from a single post -- and sometimes it can lead to outrageous presumption.

The guy said he weighs two hundred pounds. He said he is "husky." We don't know how tall he is -- and frankly, this doesn't even matter. Body TYPE is much more important when determining proportion. I guess it's a shame we don't post our online ads and list our body types along with all those meaningless "stats." Endomorph, ectomorph or mesomorph? Yeah, well... not a lot of guys will recall those classifications from sophomore year biology.

It is therefore a great leap to call this guy "fat" or discuss the American obesity epidemic or recommend chubby chaser Yahoo groups. The fact is: we have no idea what the dude looks like.

There are plenty of folks out there who are attracted to a wide variety of different characteristics. Just because we might have our own preferences doesn't mean that everyone else out there shares them.

This little tirade about getting fit and lecturing about being overweight and ridiculing fat men who show their dicks in saunas (don't ever go to the Netherlands, dude) is MUCH more the problem than guys who are mature or guys who have a few pounds on them. I can't stand it when someone pushes their own subjective ideals as mandate. Kind of like George Bush does.

If you are a vegetarian, odds are good you won't be headed to Ruth's Chris Steakhouse with a group of friends. You'd be wise to reject any such invitation. And should you ever accept anyway, it would be grossly inappropriate to sit down at the table and discuss your personal preferences for broccoli and cabbage while your friends are trying to enjoy their very expensive dinner.

I've seen enough headless photos of men online who have well defined bodies but when meeting them in person discover that their faces look like something which may have crawled out of a cave near Yucca Flats after the bomb was exploded. For all their hard work and effort in the gym, their unattractive face kills all sexual attraction for me. I'd MUCH rather have a guy who can enjoy a few Ring Dings now and then and has a face I find appealing. Being "fit" and "in-shape" can only take you so far.

And yet I can accept and understand that there are men out there who might be very much attracted to the same face I find unappealing. Good for them! Live and let live.

Personal health and well-being and the pursuit of longevity are another issue entirely -- but still remain a personal decision. The problem is that we often associate ripped abs with the epitome of health. This is simply untrue. It has been proved, in fact, that people who are a bit overweight can sometimes be even more "healthy" overall than those who are in peak condition. Body development is NOT an indicator of good health. Ever see one of those joggers who may have a six pack but at the same time looks emaciated and sickly. Usually this guy is running in the pouring rain, so obsessed with his regimen that he can't take an afternoon off. I swear to god this is true: I saw a man and a woman jogging in one of the HURRICANES this summer. If you can't take a day off from your routine during a fucking hurricane, something is fucking wrong with you. Sometimes a young collegiate athlete will collapse on the field and DIE. It's rare, but we've heard the stories. Usually one or two every year.

As far as age is concerned... Treat Williams is about sixty years old, and I'd have NO problem fucking around with him.

It's a matter of perspective. There are NO absolutes here. To suggest otherwise is indicative of a very narrow and stereotypical point of view.

Yet stereotypes and stereotypical attitudes are rooted in TRUTH, at least somewhere along the line. So it would be unfair to suggest that there is no veracity whatsoever to some of this.

MANY younger men are not interested in older men. As we get older, we need to keep this in mind and not take it personally. There ARE some younger men who are into older men -- I've run into a few who say I am too young! Oh, well... that's life.

Many "fit" guys want to be with other "fit" guys. Yet some men are interested in a much wider variety of other men. They like to sample from the buffet. It's cool either way. Seek out that which appeals to you and pass over that which does not. I won't take a scoop of steamed cauliflower from the steam tray at Golden Corral (the poor man's answer to Ruth's Chris), but I will certainly try some spinach or broccoli. What's wrong with that?

Being rejected is part of cruising. How many times have we had THAT discussion (still waiting to exchange meatloaf recipes here)?

My own sexual attraction is based on the individual. I know what I like when I see it. I've had men talk to me online and describe themselves before I see a photo. Most times I am completely unable to determine attraction based on a written description. Some guys ultimate send a picture and I find that a description they have provided doesn't do them justice: I am very much attracted to them. Other times, the opposite is equally true: their description seemed over-reaching at best. One of the "Yucca Flats" faces again. Darn.

The best advice is to not EXPECT anything at all. If you constantly walk around moping and feeling rejected before you are ever actually turned down, you're going to project an unappealing presence -- and you're going to be miserable far more often than necessary.

There is no way to know what is going on in the mind of a guy who rejects or accepts you. Many of us will accept certain kinds of sex from certain kinds of guys, but if we want something specific, we may seek out a specific type to meet that need and the associated criteria. For example, lots of us will LET a wider variety of men suck our dicks but when it comes to sucking someone else, we are a bit more selective. This is just how it is.

For about a year, I noticed a young dude, twenty-five years old, who often came into local chats. His photo was appealing to me: a good looking, masculine, kind of meaty, stocky kid. But I don't send messages to everyone in chat until I find a partner. I leave everyone alone and if a guy is interested, he usually seeks me out. I got a vibe from the guy's photo and profile that seemed to indicate that I would not be someone he'd be into. A few weeks ago, he initiated a conversation with these words: "Damn, dude. You are fucking beautiful." Oh. Wow. I had not expected that. I sure don't think I'm "beautiful." I'm OK, but that was a heavy-duty compliment. I want to meet up with this guy, but we haven't had mutual free time yet. The point is... I would have thought he wouldn't be into me at all -- and as it turns out, I am EXACTLY the type of guy that turns him on most.

Expect nothing -- and expect the unexpected, too.

I'm all for being healthy and living a long life, and have plans and goals of my own for doing just that: quit smoking, lose another ten pounds, keep up with my nightly workouts that I just started, try to avoid going to Long John Silver's, that sort of thing. But I haven't had a cold or flu in TEN YEARS. Ten years as of last month, in fact. I remember because the last time I got sick was the week I moved to Florida. My Dad had a bug and he gave it to me, my Mom and my partner. My blood pressure is perfect, but my cholesterol could drop ten points. Am I "healthier" than a guy who jogs every day? Maybe. Maybe not. All depends, doesn't it?

For all we know, the guy who posted this might be a decent looking fellow who is hanging out in places frequented by young "attitude twinks." Or his weight might not be at issue. Maybe he has dirty fingernails that dudes notice or he doesn't comb his hair. WE DON'T know. There is too much UNSAID to make an accurate assessment.

Personally, I am tired of listening to what society SAYS is attractive. I don't FOLLOW what is said in the media, I'm just tired of seeing and hearing it paraded on TV every single day. That "perfect" twenty-four year old skinny kid with the full lips and tousled hair... doesn't turn ME on AT ALL. Give me a beefy, older dude who shows some signs of maturity any day. I don't expect everyone to like what I like, and I understand that youth and certain features ARE, in fact, highly prized assets to many. That's fine. But don't ever try to suggest that these characteristics are the only ones worth having.

If Logan's Run is available on DVD, it might be worth renting.

[mascguybost]

Yup, Logan's Run is available on DVD. I just checked NetFlix.

I wasn't going to respond again here, but I can't help myself after reading all this sociological theory, which is fine and also has a lot of truth to it, but it's off the mark in this situation which is this:

A 60 year old guy, weighs 254 pounds and describes himself as a Bear wants to know why young guys close the door on him at the local Bookstore. Um, guys, it's pretty much a no brainer and has nothing to do with the media, culture or any of that. You can't say that these young hotties are turned off by him because society tells them they should be attracted to Brad Pitt. I just don't buy it.

This isn't cruel or judgemental as I don't have specific types and we all have a different place on the sexual playing field. Acceptance of that makes it a lot easier to get laid and like Scruffy said, no expectations can go a long way. So KING, hang in there and maybe change the venue or put up ads on the internet. I'm sure there are guys into you.


About the staying in shape suggestion. I think that's an awesome suggestion as it has way more benefits than increasing the odds of getting prime meat when looking for sex. Also, keep in mind, it's a lot of fucking work to stay in shape. I feel like it's a part time job at times, but you know what, I keep at it because I feel much happier, perform better on the job, am focused and yes, have a better shot at getting guys that I'm attracted to. So, I'm not working out because the media tells me to, I have just found out on my own I am happier when I am in decent physical shape which also grounds me mentally.

Also, when you are working that hard to keep fit, it's only natural that you may want to fuck around with someone else who puts the effort in. Why wouldn't you want to reap all of the benefits from that?

Anyway, that'll be all from me on this...maybe.

Peace guys.

[GuyTopeka]

KINGR,


Locally, one can check a peephole or a receptive guy will leave his door open a crack so guys can check him out without entering the booth. The guys that enter your booth, then turn around and leave have not been able to check you out otherwise. And my personal opinion is that they should never have stepped inside if they had no intention of staying.

If you were to walk into the local ABS while I was there, the first thing I'd do is check you out top to bottom. How are you carrying yourself? Head up? Hunkered over? Are you acting nervous? Confident? Are you smiling? Scowling? Frowning?

You would not believe the guys I see that look like the last thing they want is any fun. Then they wonder why everybody steers clear of their booth.

Do you look a tired 60? Youthful 60? Is there a twinkle in your eye and a ready grin on your face? Or do you have a hangdog expresssion? Do you reek of desperation? Guys can spot desperation a mile away and usually steer clear of it.

What do you smell like? Fresh? Marinated in cologne? Cigarettes? Too much of either and many won't go near you no matter how handsome you are. And be honest, how many days ago did you bathe? If I whiff something unpleasant, I'm not going near you.

Are your clothes clean and free of stains? Or do you look as if you used your t-shirt for a napkin/bib? If your clothes don't appear clean, the judgement call is that you are not clean either.

No one can tell your age by just looking at you. But they can tell your attitude about yourself by seeing how you carry yourself. Take a look at yourself before you go out. Do you look approachable or avoidable? Would you hit on you? If not, why?

What signs/signals do you use to show interest? Frankly at the local ABS, guys only show interest by entering the booth of someone they want to have fun with. There is practically no crotch-grabbing, or other signalling going on. It could be you are cruising using one technique but the locale demands a different mode of operation. Maybe you should not be inside a booth until you and another guy have signalled each other. Maybe you have made yourself unavailable to potential partners because you have entered a booth before making a hookup.

Look for other guys your age/appearance. If you see others like yourself and see them getting action, then chances are good for you. Also it will tell you what regular clientele is likely to hit on you so you can steer yourself to those guys if you happen to run into them at a later date. If you are the only one, or the others like yourself are not getting any action, then it could just be the spot is not conducive for you to get lucky.

And what do you want when you go to the ABS? A blowjob?, handjob? to Top? or to Bottom? My local unscientific testing has shown that on weekday afternoons bj's are easily procured, but if you want anal action, that usually requires an evening trip on a Friday or Saturday. Around here, it seems the guys looking for a particular activity seem to cruise only at a particular time. When are you cruising? Have you gone at various times? Who knows, the guys looking for you may only cruise at times you are not there. Plus around here, cruising patterns differ in the summer vs. winter.

You poor luck could be due to everything about you or nothing about you. If your luck does not improve, then post on your state board here at CFS and ask for other 60yo's to share their success stories. They might be able to steer you to the places/people where you would have the most success at getting lucky.

[KINGR]

[quote]Originally posted by GuyTopeka
[b]KINGR,


Do you look a tired 60? Youthful 60? Is there a twinkle in your eye and a ready grin on your face? Or do you have a hangdog expresssion? Do you reek of desperation? Guys can spot desperation a mile away and usually steer clear of it.

What do you smell like? . And be honest, how many days ago did you bathe? If I whiff something unpleasant, I'm not going near you.

Are your clothes clean and free of stains? Or do you look as if you used your t-shirt for a napkin/bib? If your clothes don't appear clean, the judgement call is that you are not clean either.

And what do you want when you go to the ABS? A blowjob?, handjob? to Top? or to Bottom?

THANKS FOR ALL THE THOUGHT THAT WENT IN TO THE ANSWERS TO MY POST,. I am 6'2", 260 and am often told I look much younger. Every day I bath and don clean clothes. Personal hygene is high on my list of requirements for my self. Twinkle in my eye? Must have as I often am sought to play the role of "Santa". Sorry, I did not mean to give the impression I was looking at only younger guys, I love to satisfy and be satisfied by anyone any age 20's to 80+'s. I think the point of my post was, those who did stay were more than satisfied and wanted to meet for more. Unfortunately for me, coming from a very conservative Southern background, I only gave in to my interest in other men in my later years so I feel like I missed out on a lot. So, I am not asking for anyone to do anything (or anybody) that is a personal turnoff, just consider looking past a stereotype and giving it a try. You might be surprised how hard some of us may try to see that you achieve complete satisfaction. KINGR

[ButchMascGuy]

Society doesn't tell us who we should be attracted to?

Mainstream society has not only been telling us who we should be attracted to, it has also been telling us who is not acceptable. In mainstream America, it is a sin to be fat, obese, or overweight. You can't channel surf for more than a minute without encountering a commercial that isn't selling the very idea that being fat, obese, or overweight is a sin. Every form of media that society uses to communicate is saturated with the same message -- being fat, obese or overweight is a sin. The essential message is fat, obese and overweight people are not only unhealthy people, they are also unattractive and have committed the cardinal sin of not comforming to this "idealized fitness" image of robust health and attractiveness. And, to further drive this message into our consciousness, a mega-billion dollar industry does exist to make certain you get that message.

Walk down a grocery isle and you are inundated with "zero carb" products on the shelves. Have you checked out the dietary supplements in the Pharmacy Department at your local retailers lately? Not only are we media saturated with the message that being fat, obese and overweight is a cardinal sin, we are also reinforcing that message in other ways within our society. We've done a very good job in getting that message out and the impact of that message is being seen in youth where young girls, some as young as age 10, are dieting to achieve body weights that can only be described as closely approximating Subsaharian African dietary standards -- malnourishment and starvation. In our society, the words anorexia and bulimia come to mind. But, what does this mean when it comes to Gay Culture?

Gay culture has also reinforced what mainstream culture tells us. Our body and fitness image is linked to our overall health fitness profiles. The message is clear and unmistakable. It is a cardinal sin to be fat, obese and overweight. In gay culture, just as it is in mainstream culture, you can be socially excluded from that culture if you don't meet certain "idealized" norms. Haven't we been discussing among ourselves how a man can look healthy and fit, and yet be HIV positive? This image or picture of good fitness health is what remains on our radar, but what sneaks under that radar is something else. There are times when I shake my head whenever I hear someone say ... "so and so" looks very hot or some other variation of that theme. I am also reminded that a guy can look "hot" and still be culturally radioactive -- HIV positive. In mainstream culture, you can also be culturally radioactive -- being Gay or Bisexual immediately comes to mind.

You would think that Gay Culture would be culturally immunized to the stigmatizing effects of social exclusion given our history and experience. I think we ought to rethink how we communicate our personal preferences so that we don't become a mirror image of what is most repugnant about mainstream culture. What we seem to be saying today is that older people and those who don't comform to an "idealized" fitness profile no longer are welcome or fit in our society. Inclusiveness used to be a bedrock principle of gay culture. It doesn't look like that today.