This is a spin-off from "Bareback: Pro or Con."

From personal experiences and from reading many ads, I know that having cum in the ass is a common male sexual fantasy, which means that barebacking is a common fantasy. Therefore, in order to understand why men bareback we must understand why men like cum in the ass, essentially why men want cum: The Semen Fetish, once again.

I'm all for people living their fantasies, if at all possible. For instance, if a man feels the need to experience group sex, the ideal would be to find a relatively safe way to fulfill that fantasy. Why not?

We all know that the only problem with group sex and barebacking is the issue of health. But, what if we found a healthier way for men to hook-up and live their barebacking fantasies? Would that be something men would want?

TheSexWizard




[Note: This message has been edited by Horndogg]

While what ProGay suggests sounds like a great idea....the major problem is there is NO WAY to be ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that "Negative" men are indeed negative for two reasons:

1) It still takes up to 3 months after having taken a load up your ass to find out if you contracted HIV because the current medical standard ELISA test can only detect exposure to HIV up to 3 months ago, but not within the last three months. There is no "DAY AFTER" HIV test, however you could probably talk your doctor into giving you a VIRAL LOAD test which can detect exposure after a few days.

2) Men lie. PERIOD.

Also, to share personal experience...I have often thought about the "load up the ass" cum sharing thing...and for me what I found was the turn on was this:

A mans body shuddering as he cums while fucking me, it was not his "load" that turned me on, it was the feel of his body as he blows that load (into a rubber, of course).

However with oral sex it is different for me. I do miss being able to suck a guy off to completion and made the choice NOT to that with strangers. Although taking cum in your mouth is not as dangerous as taking it up your ass, I prefer not to take any chances.

But somehow along the way I did discover a way to share cum that totally turns me on, makes me crazy actually.

Whether I fuck a guy til he blows (which is usually the case), or he fucks me, or I suck him, or we just JO to finish.

I LOVE THE FEEL OF CUM ON MY CHEST!!! I love having it rubbed into my pecs and having my nips litely pinched. Gets me so damn hot, I can shoot it in less than 2 minutes.

I have also seen oral guys who wont take cum in their mouth--but love it on their face.

Its all really simple.

You make the decision on how you want to practice safer sex and what your own personal rules and boundaries are about it. Then EXPLORE and DISCOVER FOR YOURSELF what turns you on--all while still playing safe.

Its an old cliche but its true....

the biggest sex organ is the brain.

[This message has been edited by pornsizedguy (edited March 12, 2001).]

Here we go again! Good grief:


First of all, the generalization that "Men lie. PERIOD" is just as bad as straights who think that ALL GAY MEN love to take it up the ass! Give me a break! While I must commend Pornsizedguy for being considerate as an HIV+ man, his condemnation of any hint of bareback sex among TRULY NEGATIVE men is just as bad as anyone else who is only looking at this issue from a narrow perspective. There are men in both the negative and positive camps who are more upbeat about barebacking when the risk factors are low or nonexsistent and I'm more than surprised that these issues are not being looked at more seriously and with greater acceptance. NOT EVERYONE WHO BAREBACKS will be in danger of contracting HIV! The Sex Wizard has presented an important point here...and among MANY conscientious negative men in the U.S., barebacking is indeed a viable option -- in spite of the scorn this very intimate activity is receiving! Pornsizedguy might be surprised to learn that there are several conscientious positive men who also SUPPORT barebacking among negative men who are careful with each other. I support barebacking when it's practiced conscientiously and only when the risk factors are low or not present. Just because a lot of men are not justified in doing bareback on each other DOES NOT DISQUALIFY all gay and bisexual men. Until we provide options for all men beyond safe sex, all prevention efforts will fail....

by the way, I am negative and get tested twice a year.....funny that you would assume I am poz because of my opinions on barebacking. I have those opinions because I have been a fucking pig most of my adult life but have practiced safe sex so I REMAIN negative.

As for men lie....I have personally witnessed two men barebacking at a group thing I was at...I assumed both were neg, because no one discussed HIV status...until I saw a bottle of Viracept in the one guys bag when he was putting his clothes on.

Do what ever you want but don't delude yourself. There is no way to be certain that someone is negative just because he "THINKS" he is.

And I guess no one really gives a shit about getting other STD's either....last time I got gonorrhea was from a bottom who just sat on my dick (I pushed him off and got a rubber anyway) and he assured me he was negative.....yeah for HIV maybe, but not the clap.

All my comments come from my direct experience, perhaps yours has been different.

And I stand corrected concerning your HIV status, my apology for misinterpreting that. I understand how some men do lie in order to get bareback sex with other guys -- it's unfortunate that they would do so...but I believe much of this has to do with the more conservative atmosphere which has evolved among gay and bisexual men. There appears to be less compassionate advice and understanding and more condemnation and "hateful" discourse towards men who prefer raw sex vs. condom use. What continues to amaze me is how heterosexuals continue to bareback without the same type of scorn and condemnation from their communities. Raw sex happens...and it's more widespread than some of us would like to know. As for me "deluding" myself, I have not: Does everything have to be so absolute, especially when it comes to being either negative or positive? There are many men who are absolutely negative and not in danger of contracting HIV...they test themselves as often as you, why would you NOT allow them the opportunity to bareback with similar men who HAVE BEEN ABSOLUTELY TRUTHFUL? I'm sorry that you run into guys who have not been sincere...but there are lots of other men who practice truthfulness here. Yes, we're all living in a very uncertain time...but we must also allow a variety of options, just as birth control forces on both sides have learned that lack of choices will defeat the purpose of prevention. That's what I'm trying to convey here: I may not necessarily condone widespread barebacking...but I don't live in a vacuum either! If straight society can treat heterosexuals as adults and allow them to choose sexual options from a wide list, then we gay and bisexual men should be allowed to the same!

I guess the closest thing we have to condemning straights for "bareback" sex is the fact that the welfare laws have been changed so that you get any additional benefits for any more babies once you sign up. And guess what....the birth rate has gone down.

Unfortunately for gay men the risk of getting, living with, and then wasting away from HIV has NOT had a similar effect on the rates of new HIV infection, particularly in young men of color (which was widely reported in the last month).

Out of compassion we have programs that give HIV medications to people in need...maybe if the medications that are helping people live weren't free, and you had to pay for them yourself if you wanted to live guys would be more careful. Talk about irony.

Lastly....we have never been on equal ground with straight society. No one is gonna help us, we have to help ourselves. And no one is gonna do us in faster than we will do ourselves in by spreading HIV in our community. Guess we haven't learned anything in 20 years.

And it's precisely those type of comments and attitudes which will do more harm than good in terms of prevention and education. We must be careful not to underestimate other gay and bisexual men's intelligence and abilities...and I got the impression from your last post that you view most of us as not intelligent enough to make our own choices based on the information presented to us. Compassion and understanding should begin LONG before the problem erupts...that's one reason why the U.S. can't seem to get a grip on the huge drug problem or high crime rates in certain areas. Extending our compassion and understanding after someone has contracted HIV is wonderful, but we should extend such behavior to everyone, not just the infected! Until some activists and proponents realize that, any prevention efforts will be futile. As someone close to me once said, "Don't send flowers to my funeral, I want them delivered while I'm still alive." This same kind of theory holds true elsewhere: Compassion and understanding begins from Day One....

[This message has been edited by blackguy469 (edited March 14, 2001).]

The big prob is that not many HIV negative men take the time to educate themselves. You and I are very different in that we have actually given thought to these issus. Most gay men probably see posts like these and dont bother to even read them.

anyway someone sent me a good link that highlights many of the arguments I have tried to make in here...and the link is a web discussion from two very well known gay doctors.
http://my.webmd.com/content/article/1700.50606

Interesting responses. But I'll go back to my original theme: Can we minimize the risk for contracting HIV and other STDs in bareback and group sex? I say this because both types of sexual activities are considered high-risk for contracting STDs.

Pornsizedguy writes: "...the major problem is there is NO WAY to be ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that "Negative" men are indeed negative..."

I agree with you completely. For reasons such as shame, many men do not attend STD Clinics. They do not want to face someone interviewing them about their sexual activities. "Should I say it was a pussy I licked or should I tell them the truth that I'm an insatiable cocksucker" What if you meet someone you know in the waiting room of the STD clinic: "So, what are you doing here?"

Other men suspect that they may be poz but continuing to exchange fluids becomes a form of denial. Some poz guys, I imagine, fucking a willing hole and dumping their load deep in it, may be a big turn on.

So, yes. Pornsizedguy is right to capitalize his statement.

However, I will concentrate on a point that blackguy469 pinpoints very well:

"Until we provide options for all men beyond safe sex, all prevention efforts will fail...."

I totally agree with blackguy469's statement for two important reasons. First, it is a precise statement because it includes "all men." It gets away from the senseless idea that gay and bisexual men have a monopoly over male homoeroticism. All men, at some point or another in their lives, will mourn the male body, and will be tormented by the dilemma of male-to-male experiences: "What would another guy's hard-on feel like in my hand?" So, yes. We have to provide options to "all men" beyond safe sex.

Otherwise, "all prevention efforts will fail..." Which brings me to the second reason I like blackguy469's statement.

As I have mentioned before, it is clear that many men have fantasies of sexual activities that are high-risk in terms of STDs. These include bareback anal sex, group sex in bathouses and parks, and gloryholes. My question to you is:

Assuming that there is a mechanism that guarantees that the men involved are healthy and that these men only have sex with members of this healthy group, would you be interested in being part of this group, which would allow you to participate in bareback anal and group sex at a low risk of STD?

TheSexWizard
For more info on male homoeroticism, go to http://members.home.net/tswiz/

In answer to Wiz's question, YES of course, who wouldnt? Safe barebacking would be great, whoever invents an imunization against HIV will make a million....

------------------
hot tite throat & ass 4 u

So some gay men lie about their status, some may be recently infected and not know their true status, and some may be completely clean and ready to unwrap, which means we can never be truly certain if the guy we are about to screw is a safe bet or not for barebacking.

I assume if you are asking the question how do we ensure a safe hookup between men who want to bareback you have thought about various options. I'm curious as to what you think some options would be.

You want to be sure everyone is not going to infect anyone else, so this must mean guys who are going to enter into this event/experience/whatever you will call it are going to offer proof of their negative status. What proof will suffice? Is this going to be some kind of registry or something? A sort of approved list of negative men that someone oversees and updates on a timely basis. Obviously you can't go on a man's word alone, if you do you're more trusting than I am or hopelessly naive. So there has to be some sort of monitoring or form of bureacracy that raises all sorts of procedural and privacy issues. In other words, a whole lot of not so erotic foreplay that's time consuming and hard-on killing. Is someone dumping cum up your ass that important?

Your assumption is right. What I would like to propose is a mechanism that would ensure a "safer" hookup for men. This would include "straight" men who are married or have relationships. For this reason, its purpose is not only to guard against HIV/AIDS, but also against any other STD.

You asked: "Is someone dumping cum up your ass that important?" For many men this is a very important need that the health department should keep in mind. I run a community for men who are interested in understanding their desire for other men. Many men write in their intro their need to be fucked. Believe it or not, "straight" men have a great desire to be fucked, thus changing their usual role. However, as I said before, this system is intended to protect against all STDs.

You guess right in your speculation about my plan. It would be a program where men would register voluntarily. By the use of technology, telephony and an information system, men could check on the phone for the status approved by the health department.

I will be meeting someone from the health department to discuss some of this issue. More details later.

TheSexWizard



[This message has been edited by TheSexWizard (edited March 28, 2001).]

That suggestion is so beyond ridiculous.....
guess you have just made up your mind that you want a load up your ass or to give one to someone else AND you are simply looking for permission to do it.

Maybe I've watched too much Sci-fi channel or smoked too many shibbies and am overly paranoid, but REGISTER with a government agency my HIV status and my acknowledgment that I want to engage in a practice that society views as a major health risk? I just had the DMV fuck up information on my license when I went to renew - who's to say they wouldn't fuck up information on members of your little cum-laden shangri la? And what about men who want to join but then learn they are HIV+? What's to be done with that information? This is the same lack of foresight that's involved when someone decides it's inconvenient to reach over and grab a rubber...

"By the use of technology, telephony and an information system, men could check on the phone for the status approved by the health department." - that same use of techonology you promote as being a convenient way of getting much-needed cum up your ass could also be used in ways that might not thrill you as much.

not surprising to see such ridiculous rot from someone who INSISTS that someone can be str8 and want to take cum up the ass.